About to pull the car apart

Discussion in 'Body Restoration' started by SPG, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. SPG

    SPG Bumblebee Builder

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    I have a lot of questions, most should probably be individual threads.

    1) I have my own garage and want to do body work as my engine has a knock and if I don't want to destroy it, so I need to take it apart. From the research I have done, aircraft paint remove seems to be my best DIY option aside from media blasting (which is expensive) and then using a wirewheel for little spots. I'm aware it's messy, and requires protection, if anyone has thoughts other wise please let me know.

    2) Next thing was a rotisserie, my car really isn't that rusty from what I have found, very small spots not even at the bottom of the car, so really a rotisserie would only be worth it to paint the bottom of the car. Should I build one just for this one purpose? or not even bother. What would be the best way to paint the underside of the car in your opinion? I was thinking of just propping it up really high on blocks maybe, but that feels dangerous.

    3) Next would be the large dent in the picture I've attached below. It's the only thing that concerns me about the car as it was hit right there and shifted my bumper. I have no idea if that bracket is bent or not yet, and if I can fix it....I'll cross that bridge when I get there. As for the dent, do you think I can bang that out? A body shop said it was easy, my dad wants me to put a new panel. From my understanding AMD panels fit like garbage and are a lot more thin than OEM.

    I don't feel like the picture really shows how bad the cave in is, maybe it's not a big deal, it's why I'm asking.

    4) Seam sealer, how do I get rid of it, and where are all the locations its used so I can replace it? I know the cowl has it, since my car caught on fire it's really rotted out. Need to get rid of it for paint, but I most certainly have to replace it now. Any recommended seam sealer I should use? Do I put the sealer on before or after paint. That might sound lieka stupid question but I don't know. (obviously for windows after, but what about the cowl)

    5) Whats the best way to take out the front/rear windows? Or should I just have someone else do it. The front windshield is new, the rear is.....fine but has scratches so I'll probably get a new one. I could probably get the rear out and break it, wouldn't want to do that with the front though.

    6) The lead seem, how do I deal with that? or do I just not screw with it if it's in good condition and wear protection.

    7) Next thing that mostly concerns me, is actually doing body work. From what I know you want to do all the metal work you can, use as little filler as possible and then prime it. But you also don't want to leave it bare metal for too long because it will develop rust. I live in California with very little humidity so I can't imagine I'll have too many issues, but realistically should I only do one body panel at a time and then prime it in the same weekend? Or put epoxy down first?
    I want to use this primer and from what I have found it works somewhat like an epoxy, but I don't know if that's just marketing BS. How long can I leave panels in primer without issue? As the paint I want is expensive I need to know if I have to have it on hand soon after the fact, or if I can wait a bit to apply color and clear.
    Here is the specific color I want if anyone is interested.

    8) The last thing is the cowl/firewall/engine bay/underside of the car. Obviously thats not paint you typically want to use on the body of the car....but no one seems to ever mention painting these parts. Is there anything special I need? or do I just wire wheel it to metal and rattle can it. (i'm kidding) but what paint should I use for this?

    I also need new bushings, but I saw a few threads about that recently that I'll read up on, people seem to have a lot of conflicting opinions about what to use.
     

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  2. grzewnicki

    grzewnicki Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    I used aircraft paint removers, works well just lay paper down to catch the crap, wear some gloves and eye protection. Harbor freight $120 sandblaster is helpful for tight areas, cleaning up slightly rusty parts etc. Use a N95 dust mask, good for silica. I used Ace medium sand, ran it through a piece of window screen to get the bigger nozzle clogging chunks out, clean the area your blasting in first, sweep up sand and you can re-use it once or twice before it loses it sharp edges. Use Southern Polyurethane epoxy primer, 1 gal of of base and 1 gal of activator runs $200, delivered to your door, one of the best products out there and reasonably priced, check out their website for tech data before using rust converters! Underside of car can stay epoxy primer unless you want to paint, once you got epoxy primer on panels they will be fine till you paint, just follow tech sheet about prepping epoxy for paint, actually you'll go over it with high build primer once your ready to start blocking the car. I had someone shoot the bottom of my car, I have no idea how easy-hard it is with a cup gun, beings you have to hold he gun at an angle to do it, rotisserie would be helpful and usually you can sell when done and recoup some of that cash. Apply epoxy and do your filling over top of that, lot of people use Evercoat rage gold filler, buy a good set of blocks for sanding and rolls of stick on paper, you'll go through a bit. Firewall, cowl areas can be painted whatever color you want, probably easiest to use a single stage on those areas and the frame and small parts. I hung all my small stuff on the side of he house and shot it, never got any dust, bugs and stuff in it, Calif your probably golden unless you live in mojave! That ding is easy for an experienced body guy, tough for a new guy since it is on a body line. But once the metal is back to where it is close then you can work it with some filler. If you haven't worked with filler before check out some you tube videos, you'll be using your hands a lot to find high and low spots, just something you learn to do with experience. Leave the lead seam alone, it is one of the best body fillers out there, still used by the most experienced guys out there, you might find some plastic over top of it, at least there was a small amount on my car. When you're blocking you can wet the panel down with some grease and wax remover to give it a shine and site down it to see how it looks. I used masking tape on body lines as a guide, probably not the way a pro does it, but it helped me keep the line straight. As far as bushings go, all depends on what you want to do with the car, either stock rubber or delrin type, stay away from polyurethane types except in non rotational points like sway bars. Good idea to install subframe connectors and solid body mounts to keep the car from flexing. Decide what you want, stock or do you want to upgrade the handling, I wasted some money with stock stuff then saw everything people on here were doing and spent more money on Pro-touring F body (PTFB- site sponsor) springs, upper a arms (big improvement in suspension geometry, more caster that you won't get any other way, tall ball joints, shocks and subframe connectors, just those few item have been made a huge difference in how the car handles. 1LE brake upgrade is a good way to use larger rotors on front without spending a bunch of cash, search 1LE brake upgrade on here, small list of readily available parts needed, won't work with all 15 inch rims though due to calipers hitting rim. Most people going with 18 inch rims since 15" good rubber getting harder to find.Also Dave at Custom Works offers many products to improve your suspension, steering brakes etc, also a site sponsor. I really like to spend my money on the guys that help keep our site going. Interior parts, F Body warehouse is also a site sponsor, great videos for a lot interior work.
     
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  3. grzewnicki

    grzewnicki Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    One thing I forgot, an assembly manual and fisher body book are helful resources to have on hand, you can buy a set, oh and a wiring diagram, you're going to run across issues on cars this old. And ziploc quart freezer bags and 3 x 5 index cards to keep all the hardware sorted out, plus take pics before disassembly.
     
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  4. CaliCamaro75

    CaliCamaro75 Veteran Member

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    Also for a rotisserie there's a few designs on here people have done with lumber. I for one have mine up and has been there for a while now. Currently in so-cal with bare metal for months an still no sign of rust. Doing patch repair and came to a stand still. Any questions or need pics just ask. An good luck on your build!!
     
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  5. Scott51

    Scott51 Veteran Member

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    A lot of this depends on how far you want to take things but:

    1) aircraft paint remove seems to be my best DIY option aside from media blasting (which is expensive) and then using a wirewheel for little spots.

    Way too many people strip solid paint jobs to bare metal unnecessarily instead of doing a decent clean, sand and spot repair followed by epoxy sealer. If thats original paint or only x1 respray I’d seriously consider this or just stripping the outer surfaces and sanding respirating the jams etc.

    If you’re set on going bare metal and thinking about a rotisserie build reconsider media-blasting. Honestly doing it yourself in your spare time is a huge job and it gets to the point where your racing against rust and dirt even in California. Where I am, blasting the whole shell (inside outside underside) and epoxy priming is around $3000. Compared to the cost of tools, materials and time to DIY that’s actually pretty cheap



    2) Next thing was a rotisserie, my car really isn't that rusty from what I have found, very small spots not even at the bottom of the car, so really a rotisserie would only be worth it to paint the bottom of the car. Should I build one just for this one purpose? or not even bother. What would be the best way to paint the underside of the car in your opinion? I was thinking of just propping it up really high on blocks maybe, but that feels dangerous.

    This one is totally dependent on what you’re trying to achieve? If it’s just rust proofing and a basic clean up look up systems like dinitrol on YouTube. If you want to do a full resto or repaint a rotisserie is the way to go


    3) Next would be the large dent in the picture I've attached below. It's the only thing that concerns me about the car as it was hit right there and shifted my bumper. I have no idea if that bracket is bent or not yet, and if I can fix it....I'll cross that bridge when I get there. As for the dent, do you think I can bang that out? A body shop said it was easy, my dad wants me to put a new panel. From my understanding AMD panels fit like garbage and are a lot more thin than OEM.

    That dent is an easy fix, even for a novice, but it also shouldn’t cost much if you unbolt it and take it to a body shop. AVOID REPRO FENDERS UNLESS YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE . If you’re bumper has moved it may have bent the brackets which is more difficult because they’re so damn hefty. Ditch all of the crash impact stuff and see if you can realign it before pulling anything apart. A jack and heavy duty ratchet straps can help, otherwise it might be easier to replace anything that doesn’t play nice.


    4) Seam sealer, how do I get rid of it, and where are all the locations its used so I can replace it? I know the cowl has it, since my car caught on fire it's really rotted out. Need to get rid of it for paint, but I most certainly have to replace it now. Any recommended seam sealer I should use? Do I put the sealer on before or after paint. That might sound lieka stupid question but I don't know. (obviously for windows after, but what about the cowl)

    Good quality twisted knot wire cup on an angle grinder - wear a full face shield!. Any cartridge type 1k seam sealer from a reputable manufacturer is fine. Seam sealer goes on just before final coat of sealer and top coat (it flexes so you don’t want a lot of material over it)


    5) Whats the best way to take out the front/rear windows? Or should I just have someone else do it. The front windshield is new, the rear is.....fine but has scratches so I'll probably get a new one. I could probably get the rear out and break it, wouldn't want to do that with the front though.

    Push a piece of piano wire or similar through the sealant, wrap each end around a tube or piece of dowel and use it to saw through the sealant with someone’s help (youtube is your friend here) Take your time and be patient, don’t tempted to try and kick it out from the inside, chances are that will end in tears.


    6) The lead seem, how do I deal with that? or do I just not screw with it if it's in good condition and wear protection.

    Leave it alone unless there are signs of cracking or corrosion, a light scuff and clean taking the proper precautions will be fine. If you need to redo it use a propane torch and wire brush to remove the old lead. Avoid grinding, wire wheels or coarse sanding.


    7) Next thing that mostly concerns me, is actually doing body work. From what I know you want to do all the metal work you can, use as little filler as possible and then prime it. But you also don't want to leave it bare metal for too long because it will develop rust. I live in California with very little humidity so I can't imagine I'll have too many issues, but realistically should I only do one body panel at a time and then prime it in the same weekend? Or put epoxy down first?

    No matter where you live, painting straight over bare metal that’s been exposed for more than 8 hours is risky. Either strip the whole thing then treat it with a suitable chemical like PPG deoxidine when you’re ready to paint, or focus on one section/panel at a time.


    I want to use this primer and from what I have found it works somewhat like an epoxy, but I don't know if that's just marketing BS.

    House of Kolor do nice candies, pearls and flakes but wouldn’t be my first choice for primer, stick with PPG, DUPONT or SPI


    How long can I leave panels in primer without issue? As the paint I want is expensive I need to know if I have to have it on hand soon after the fact, or if I can wait a bit to apply color and clear.

    Generally speaking quite a long time if the car is stored in a clean dry environment but always refer to the paint manufacturer’s tech sheets.


    8) The last thing is the cowl/firewall/engine bay/underside of the car. Obviously thats not paint you typically want to use on the body of the car....but no one seems to ever mention painting these parts. Is there anything special I need? or do I just wire wheel it to metal and rattle can it. (i'm kidding) but what paint should I use for this?

    Again depends what you’re trying to achieve. There’s a myriad of products out there from economical 1k satin black to the same 2k epoxy and urethane systems used on the outside of your car. If you want to do anything more than a basic touch up or scuff n shoot and corrosion protection in all of these areas, I’d look into a rotisserie and media blasting. Also dude this forum isn’t the only paint and body resource, so if you haven’t seen anyone ‘ mention painting these parts’ I’d recommend spending a little more time with google and looking at some of the threads on the project progress forum.
     
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  6. Happy_Dan

    Happy_Dan Veteran Member

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    Sounds like you are basically a novice. Here is what I learned from my experience so far.

    Get it media blasted if you want to get to bare metal. But if you don't have to, don't!
    If you get it media blasted, get it in epoxy primer asap and you will never have to worry about rust.

    Pictures, pictures and more pictures even of things you don't think you will need. These projects in our garages often stretch into years and those picture are invaluable! Also as mentioned, labels on everything. Make notes for things that pictures might not show like what shims are in body panels. So much easier to put together if you track them and replace them.

    Be prepared for it to be way more work than you imagined.

    Ask questions here, there is so much help and information here that it's astounding. A great site and helpful, friendly people to encourage and help you.

    One last thing, break the project down to parts. It's much less overwhelming when you set short term goals and then go after them.

    Best of luck. How about some pictures of the car?
     
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  7. Jeep43

    Jeep43 Veteran Member

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    Agree with what was said about not stripping to bare metal if you don't have to. But if you need to, also consider sanding to metal with a good rotary buffer/sander and 80 grit disks.

    After a panel is fully stripped, I would get it covered in epoxy primer right away. Epoxy can stay uncovered indefinitely however after a certain window you need to scuff it to top coat. Do all of your body work over the epoxy.

    I stripped the undercoating and painted the bottom of my car floor on my back with the car on jackstands.

    I used John Deere Blitz black with a hardener to paint the matte black underhood areas. Its inexpensive and is a good paint. I actually rattlecanned the floor of my car with a Home depot spray bomb called "cappuccino". The previous owner used it to do from the axle back and it looked good, so I used it for the rest of the way, then just let the blitz black fade into it near the bottom of the firewall.

    If its your first time spraying paint, I would recommend a solid non-metallic color. You can paint piece by piece and it will all match when you put it together. Keep in mind, in a garage spray booth, you are really just applying paint material to be cut and buffed later on.
     
  8. SPG

    SPG Bumblebee Builder

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    Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it.
    Here is an album of the car, let me know if you have issues viewing it https://photos.app.goo.gl/1Rvo15JdiJCd4Wfh7

    I have a haynes repair manual and a wiring diagram already (in color, and the ones nasty already has)

    I'll make sure to take lots of pictures and sort them, I'm currently building shelves in my garage for everything.

    As you can see the car had a sub-par rattle can job over top the factory paint, in some spots it's bubbling up, the body lines on the doors have a lot of dings, the rear window will need to be fixed as it's leaking and I'm sure part of it is rusting. Compared to some cars on here....very minor in the grand scheme of things.

    I'm pretty set on bringing it to bare metal though, I don't want to paint over this job as it will be wasted money over the years because I'll just have to redo it due to issues the paint is hiding.

    I'll look into Southern Polyurethane epoxy, I know a lot of people used them.

    Thanks CaliCamaro75, I'll make sure to keep that in mind, a wood rotisserie is most certainly interesting, but seems very effective.

    Now for Scott

    The real issue is just getting the car somewhere to get it media blasted, everything around me to get it blasted is about an hour away, I don't have a truck, or a trailer to transport it. The fact
    my car even made it to my new house is an accomplishment in and of itself to be honest with you.

    I'll 100% avoid repos, there isn't a single body panel on my car that needs to be outright replaced....at least I'm pretty sure nothing needs to be. I'll do my best to pull the bumper back that sounds like a huge pain in the ass, but I know this was never going to be easy.

    I planned on focusing on one panel at a time as that would probably give me the best results due to me being one person instead of a team at a body shop.

    isn't mixing different products together for primer/base/clear a bad idea?

    Also I know this forum isn't the only place to ask questions, it's just one of the most active ones still around that just so happens to be for my car. Most of my time is spent doing research on what I need to do, and a lot of times people gloss over what I'm trying to figure out, or have conflicting opinions on what the "right" way is
     
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  9. grzewnicki

    grzewnicki Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    These cars are too old not to take to bare metal, I had lots of spots on my car that looked fine but once stripped there was rust under there. And even going to bare metal isn't 100% fool proof, I've had a few spots pop up on the lower part of my doors, what the heck, I stripped you to bare metal you b-tch, what are you doing to me?????? Unbelievable. If you gonna invest in re-painting, go the extra step and take it to bare metal and be sure there is nothing lurking there. I may have missed it but if no one answered up on window removal, you can get a tool for about $15 on Summit or do what I did, make your self a hole through the sealant and thread some steel wire through there and pull it around the cut the sealant. I don't recall what wire I used, might have been some .032 stainless steel safety wire since I got rolls of it sitting around and it is strong as hell. Just be careful when you get to the center base, antenna lead is there, also when making your hole to start, again, I don't recall exactly what tools I used, possible a small scribe, but you can chip the edge of you not careful, doubt you break it by chipping the edge but I guess it is possible, tempered glass is funny that way. I was cringing this weekend when the wife was cleaning two tempered glass kitchen cabinet shelves that I handle with extreme care and she is flipping it around to clean it over top of some towels covering the granite counter tops, I was waiting for her t tap and edge and watch it shatter into a milllion pieces across the floor. Needless to say but I opted to put them back in the cabinet myself just for the piece of mind it afforded me! As far as mixing different paint products, the best thing to do is check with the manufacturers about compatabilty. I'm pretty sure you can shoot anything over SPI epoxy. There paint products get high praise, don't know if they offer a color close to what you want, but worth checking. Paint is a big part of where the money goes, unbelievable what some manufacturers charge for their products. But if I was gonna try my hand at painting, I'd be looking at better priced products just in case I screwed it up. You don't need high dollar stuff for all the small pieces, frame, engine compartment, especially if it is going to be a driver. One more thing on the windows, I'd probably get them installed professionally, do not use any butyl tape to put them back in. They need to be put in with the urethane adhesive, they are actually a structural component of the car, and it takes some skill to get them sitting at the right height for the window trim to fit properly. Well worth the money, wish I had done that rather than have the guy who painted my car do them, they are not wuite right.
     
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  10. SPG

    SPG Bumblebee Builder

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    I'm sure under the paint I have a lot of surprises, which is why I want to figure out what I should have on hand before I do something that makes the car sit too long.
    Most certainly going to use different paint for under the car/firewall and frame, I only plan on using HOK for the body panels.
    I'll absolutely make a professional install my windows, it's one of the few things where I think you shouldn't DIY unless you know exactly what you're doing.
     
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