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Discussion in 'High Tech Retrofits' started by CDesperado, May 3, 2012.
why can't you use hard lines?
I think some important aspects of the Holley system are left out of your spreadsheet.
In addition to the handheld unit for startup you can ALSO use a laptop with it (one or the other at a time)
And there are only actually 13 REQUIRED connections for the Holley, which include some weatherpack connecters you are just pluging in. The rest are all optional, and there are a lot of optional connectors
The Holley system is actually 900CFM according to the instructions.
Also has 4 programmable outputs and 4 programmable inputs, so you can do other stuff with the fuel injection such as nitrous control, or making a shift light from the setup, have it shoot missles out of the rear of your car etc. These are inaddition to the Fan1 and fan 2 control.
There are actually 3 different TB versions depending on your horsepower requirements.
The Holley also has optional Fuel and oil pressure inputs built in, just have to buy a transducer and connect them to the already provided connectors.
The Holley unit will also control GM LSx engines out of the box with a simple harness change. Also Does Ford TFI
1-5 bar MAP, so it can work with a blown application
Also came with two fuel filters, a pre and post filter if you plan on using an external pump. Also included a clamp/bracket to mount the post filter
Also some of your "No's" on that spread sheet appear as being bad, IMO. Like "Integrated sensors" This is actually a good thing. If your IAC or TPS ever fail you can swap them out without having to take a bunch of stuff off, or sending back to the manufacturer. Also "Fuel rails" should technically be a YES as those are basically integrated into the throttlebody assembly.
I am linking to the Holley page because it has way too many features that blow these other products away Holley Link
Dont know, says it right in the instructions though. Page 6
Atomic EFI Instructions
Maybe because it does PWM for the pump and it needs the swell to compensate for the overpressure it may produce?
The adjustable rotor phasing for the timing seems really complicated too, but I have a hard time concentrating when I read
you should call them and ask
There is no need for me to call, I do not care. It says in the instructions and I am good with that I already bought the best of these systems
Soooo, what is that?
The Holley and I got PRIMO pricing on it, shipped second day too! WAAY lower than the price above
If you want simple and never upgrading it or wanting to do anything else I can understand going with one of the other systems, but the Holley just has the potential to do so much more.
There's a notable error in your chart. The MSD system doesn't really control timing like the Holley system does. It can control the initial, the curve, and the maximum timing achieved, but it is in no way what most of us think controlled timing is in a normal EFI system. You can find this if you dig into the FAQ's on MSD's website.
The objective with this thread is to present a professional, unbiased, and objective opinion of the various EFI systems. In particular, I am interested in providing information to "laypeople" like myself who have no experience with EFI systems, but need to make a decision. I think we can agree the "eye rolls" don't really have a place here, do they?
I will call Atomic and Summit Racing today to get more information, but the quote you provided from the Atomic manual is simply poorly worded on their part and not researched well on your part, which may cause others to take your quote out of context.
According to MSD,
"With a return system, the hard line is fine. The rubber line is required for any return-less system." (Source)
In my hot climate (Texas), MSD actually recommends using a fuel return system, but I planned on using a return line from the beginning so that didnt change anything for me.
Returnless Fuel Systems
I realize others want to go returnless, so... in regards to the potentially misleading passage in the Atomic manual:
Based on what I have read so far, the limitation for the hard line or braided steel is for PWM use only. The PWM pumps would (theoretically) cause hammering in the line without the rubber hose there to absorb it. With a flow through return setup, hard line or braided line is fine.
According to MSD,
"Steel lines cannot be used with a PWM (returnless) system due to the "water hammering" effect created by the pulsing of the fuel pump. The flexable fuel hose will absorb this effect."
If you are using a return system, a hard line will be fine. If you expect to utilize the PWM, returnless fuel system than there needs to be some flex in the line to absorb the pulses that the pump will produce to meter the pressure. This means that a person would need a rubber lined, braided line for the engine compartment side of the system and a rubber hose from the tank forward.
On another note, I dont know which Holley model has a 900 cfm flow rate, but the one I am using for the head's up match is 700 cfm.
I hope you don't perceive this as me picking on you - that isn't my intent. You obviously purchased the Holley and I am sure you will be happy with it. It's a good system - it just isn't the one for me.