Hooker/Holley Cross Member on DSE Subframe?

Discussion in 'High Tech Retrofits' started by 68LS1, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. 68LS1

    68LS1 New Member

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    I will be running a Detroit Speed Subframe on my 70 Camaro, LS3 & Magnum T56. They don't offer a cross member for this subframe and suggest using one that fits stock subframe.

    I like the look of the new Hooker/Holley one, http://www.holley.com/12616HKR.asp appears to be strong, with good exhaust clearance.

    Does anyone know if this will work on the DSE subframe?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2014
  2. 71RS/SS396

    71RS/SS396 Veteran Member

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    I could be mistaken but I think the hooker crossmember is designed to work with their engine mounts which centers the engine in the chassis vs being offset to the passenger side like GM did. If you look at the build pics in my sig below you can see how DSE did my crossmember.
     
  3. 68LS1

    68LS1 New Member

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    Thanks for response, think I need to contact DSE to check if engine is centred in subframe.

    Love how they did yours, they use to offer a similar style weld in for 1st Gen
     
  4. mrvedit

    mrvedit Veteran Member

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    I have the Hooker engine mounts and the trans aligned EXACTLY on my G-Force crossmember. I compared the Hooker and G-Force crossmembers for centering and they appeared to be the same. I did not compare either with a stock crossmember. Come to think of it, when I previously used other swap mounts (TransDapt), the trans did not align exactly on my G-Force crossmember; I had to twist it to the drivers side just a bit.

    I highly recommend the G-Force crossmembers; there are many varieties and I suspect they can suggest the correct one for you. The website is www.crossmembers.com; Summit sells some of them .
     
  5. 68LS1

    68LS1 New Member

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    Thanks, they are definitely in my top picks
     
  6. toddoky

    toddoky Veteran Member

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    Unfortunately, it won't work for you in your application. The reason it won't is that the design geometry of the Hooker T56 crossmember, which is configured to be installed in the notch formed into the top of the stock subframe does not correspond to the fore/aft location of the crossmember notch and mounting holes in the DSE subframe. If you look at a picture of the Hooker crossmember you will notice that it makes the span across the vehicle basically as a straight beam under the transmission mounting pad...the crossmember mounting notches and holes in the DSE subframe are closer to the mid-point of a T56 and will required a cantilever-design crossmember to reach back from the subframe mounting points and pick up the transmission mount. You are in the same situation I was in when I was designing the Hooker T56 crossmember for the 1st-gen Camaro LS swap application...if you search for a picture of the 12626HKR Hooker crossmember you will be able to see the cantilevered design configuration that was arrived at. I hope this is helpful information.
     
  7. toddoky

    toddoky Veteran Member

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    Formatting my previous reply got me pondering the likelihood of the Hooker 1st-gen T56 crossmember fitting the DSE 2nd-gen subframe, since it's hydroformed rails are the same as their 1st-gen subframe. It just so happens that we have a 2nd-gen (with an LS7 and T56 set-up)here right now that has a DSE subframe in it, so I crawled under it with the Hooker 1st-gen T56 crossmember and held it up under the subframe and trans to give it a rough validatation for fitment...it looks like it will drop right in, but you may need to do some minor modification to it depending on what engine mounts you are using. The car we have here is equipped with DSE engine mounts, but I've read that they offer at least two different sets.
     
  8. toddoky

    toddoky Veteran Member

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    And yet another update...in my previous evaluation of the Hooker 1st-gen T56 crossmember working in a DSE subframe equipped 2nd-gen F-body I failed to take into account the absence of the floor pockets that are present in 1st-gen F-body cars immediately above the crossmember. Due to this fact, the Hooker 1st-gen T56 crossmember cannot be installed on the DSE subframe in a 2nd-gen.
     
  9. 68LS1

    68LS1 New Member

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    The ups and downs of car mods.

    Heard back from DSE, the driveline is centred in their subframe.

    Thanks for responses toddoky, so if I understand correctly the Hooker crossmember does not install in factory position of stock crossmember on 2nd Gen but further back?

    Looking at the other crossmembers I am considering, it looks as if the GForce would be mounting in same position as Hooker? So I can also rule out GForce?

    Chassisworks & XForce have a trans mount position behind subframe mounting bolts

    Chassisworks Xmember.jpg

    XFactor Xmember.jpg

    GForce Xmember.jpg

    Hooker Xember.jpg

    Toddoky, will the Hooker Crossmember bolt in to factory position? Would it be difficult to modify trans mount on crossmember? I assume there is a reason it was not designed this way originally.
     
  10. toddoky

    toddoky Veteran Member

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    The Hooker 2nd-gen crossmembers were designed to be attached to the stock subframe in the formed pockets that exist in all year model 2nd-gens. The early cars that were produced while the TH400 was offered as an option had mounting holes punched in the pockets to attach the stock crossmember, but the holes were moved forward on the later subframes after the TH400 was dropped as an option (but the pockets remain) Because of this, the Hooker 2nd-gen crossmembers bolt into the holes that exist in the pockets on the early cars and require drilling of new holes in the subframes pockets of the later subframes that do not have holes in that location. You will notice when shopping for a replacement stock crossmember that they are listed as being for a 1970-74 car or 1975-81 car specifically for this reason. The attached photo here is a picture of the Hooker 1st-gen T56 crossmember which has a cantilevered design to account for the similar offset mounting geometry on that application that you are experiencing with your DSE subframe/T56 transmission.
     

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