LT1 T56 I have NEVER been this confused!

Discussion in 'High Tech Retrofits' started by earlysecond, Mar 5, 2009.

  1. earlysecond

    earlysecond Veteran Member

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    Hey John,

    YOU need the transmission that I have plus the stock flywheel. If YOU had gotten the LT set up T56 complete, you could have bolted the pull style LT1 flexplate right to your crank and would have beem golden. All that I know abuot the pilot busing so far is that I need one, it should not need to be extended. I can compare the cranks later at the machine shop and write it down and post it up.

    Thanks for trying for me and keeping me in mind, what you have done is REALLY different as you have introduced a stock Viper set up to the mix!

    This gets more fun daily!

    Brent
     
  2. John Wright

    John Wright Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Yeah...see my input shaft was too long, rather than too short(like yours)...so I had a different issue, plus nobody else could help me because nobody else sourced a Viper transmission, they all used either a LS1 or LT1. So I felt like the Lone Ranger when I tackled my project, but it all bolted together fine with the McLeod bell and adapter plate.
     
  3. Speed Happy '77

    Speed Happy '77 Veteran Member

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    I'm not all the way up on Vipers, but I'm sure all newer ones use the TR-6060.
    It's 600tq/600hp rated rather than the 450/480 T-56.

    1) That is I think the first time I've seen "lol" used on this forum.
    2) Probably has to be beaten into people that you want double overdrive. I've been down that road before. They keep ranting that the final gear is useless without a tall rear end and then your drive train has to be... blah blah blah.
    3) Shiny pictures help. Words, words, words, oh look! A picture... suddenly everything makes sense. That's the general idea.
    4) "LT1 T-56" Confusion reigns. LT1 is the motor, the one it looked like you were trying to bolt up. Then you mentioned something about a 400 and I figured (not up on generation II Chevy) it was a second-gen. motor, same displacement.
     
  4. John Wright

    John Wright Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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  5. Speed Happy '77

    Speed Happy '77 Veteran Member

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    Yes, I noticed I should have read more, but it gets more and more confusing in the middle. I'm almost thinking this thread should be locked by admin and restarted elsewhere... save a lot of confusion.

    So here's what I'm figuring out from all this:
    So you're hooking up a T-56 to an old-fashioned gen. 1 V8, right?
    You have a bell housing that attaches fine to both sides, bolts up and everything? Borg and Sachs makes a good $300 clutch kit, 26-spline. What you need right now is, as far as I can tell, a flywheel, one that you apparently didn't add and get balanced at the shop along with the motor.
    I'm still lost as to how you can't find a flywheel that will bolt on, unless - perhaps this is where we get truly lost - you're looking for one already balanced that also bolts to your 'special' crank. I guarantee your gen. 1 motor setup has been done countless times before. It's SBC. There WILL BE a flywheel to match if you just look for it based on those specifics, looking it up the way I mentioned before. Flywheel has nothing to do with bolt-up to your T-56, just affects your motor.
    Last thing you need. Clutch linkage and throw arm to mount into your bell housing.

    Once we clarify what you need left and what we think should work that magically doesn't with your setup, maybe we will have shed enough light for some part numbers to grow on this forum.
     
  6. Speed Happy '77

    Speed Happy '77 Veteran Member

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    I've seen those pics before. On another thread, when I was looking up all the specs on the T-56 last time I took my tranny out. I ended up replacing the clutch and leaving the tranny where it was... too much money, too much hassle.
    Good info on the link. Still need something to help him out with the flywheel, though.

    Earlysecond: T-56's are essentially the same as far as bolting up goes. The bell housing/input shaft is all that connects your engine to your tranny. Clutch bolts on the flywheel, flywheel bolts on the engine. If you're looking for a flywheel using your T-56 as a reference, I'd suggest you finish off the bottle of aspirin and try again, just looking for a flywheel that fits the engine.

    There are a few minor considerations in regards to maximums, but that's it. Flywheel has to fit in the bell housing, clutch has to be the same size as the flywheel or close to it... usually a good setup would be a 10.5-11" clutch and keep your bell housing around 12" or under.
     
  7. earlysecond

    earlysecond Veteran Member

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    Speed Happy,

    Thanks for hanging in there! I lol'd so as not to look like I was pissed. It was a frustraution laugh. OK for all the late comers. . .and if, like me, you have A.D.D. LISTEN UP!

    YES speed,

    I have a 1995 T56 that came out of a Camaro. It sat, originally, behind an LT1 engine. However, it lacked a bellhousing or any of the necessary clutch parts.
    The tranny has an input shaft that measures 5.5" from the front of the existing case to the TIP of the input shaft.
    I have an assembled, running, 388 stroker motor that is EXTERNALLY balanced
    For many reasons I have chosen to purchase an original bellhousing that mates this tranny to an LT1 engine.

    I still need a workable clutch and flywheel. It needs to:
    1)fit INSIDE of the stock bell both diamater and have the correct thickness and maybe design.
    2)bolt to a gen 1 crank
    3)be externally balanced as that is how the engine was set up and I am not gonna rip it apart.
    4)the clutch will never be beat by me I baby the car

    NOW THE COMPLICATION of which I bet a couple of people only read snippets.
    I can easily find an adapter flywheel that will fit the stock bell, and bolt to the gen 1 crank. I had a flywheel and used clutch offered to me, during this thread, by a member, which came out of, I believe, the same bellhousing BUT was on a Big Block engine. That is when all the balance quesitons came about.

    QUESTIONS:
    1)in my case is it really just that simple that I get any gen 1. flywheel, externally balanced and make it work with the stock bell and "Pull" style clutch as long as it is 26 spline. . .I am not that convinced.
    2.if you look at a stock LT1 flywheel, it is DRASTICALLY different in design than traditional mechanical clutch flywheels
    3. should I attempt to save about half the money, take a risk that the Big Block flywheel can be rebalanced for $75(a figure quoted to me just this morning) or should I just bite the bullet and buy what I "think" will work?
    4. If I buy a "new" flywheel and clutch and use a weighted plate, can it be pretty much any old flywheel or does it need to accomodate the "pull" style that is LT1?

    PLEASE- if you are able to definitively answer all of these questions, from EXPERIENCE and not speculation. . .I am all ears. If somebody already did this enlighten me and I will personally DELETE this whole post and chalk it up to the fact that I am too stupid to figure out what has been right in front of me.

    IF any old flywheel will work with the "stock" pull type set up. Why in the heck does the aftermarket sell a stock replacement LT1 flywheel that is DOUBLE the money of every other listed flywheel? If I could have run a mechanical set up I could use any old flywheel. This is a totally different ballgame.

    Woody, did this and got the adapter flywheel from SPEC. for $350. Sadly their website is next to useless so I have not attempted to source a workable flywheel from them for this reason.

    One of the major issues:
    There are 4 sources of T56 trannies that I know of-
    1. The LT1 sourced (93-97 Camaro or Firebird) model with a provision, on the bell for a clutch fork which is hydraulically actuated. The input shaft is 5.5inches from the face of the midplate on the tranny. This set up used a pull style hydraulic clutch. With the simple change out of the flywheel, the stock components will bolt right to a gen 1 SBC
    2. The LSX sourced (98-2002 Camaro or Bird) 6.5" input, used a hydraulic release bearing, no clutch fork and had a different mid plate with no clutch fork provision. This unit lends itelf prety well, with an adapter plate to the use of EXISTING mechanical clutch found on manual second gen cars.
    3. The Viper sourced tranny upgraded internals, 7" input shaft used a hydraulic relesae bearing (ask John Wright, he is the expert) BUT you need anaftermarket adapter modular bellhousing to make this work, I think?
    4. Aftermarket tranny- big dollar brand new rebuilt tranny usually sold in a kit that can easily go into a mechanically clutched car

    Are there others as the years pass and there are new wrecks. . . YES
    Cadillac CTS for example
    Pontiac GTO

    More will come out.

    Frankly, and selfishly, I am worried about making mine work. It has been suggested by speed that maybe this post should be pulled. . .I must argue that ANYBODY who is considering this swap should have access to it. If it makes sense to pull it, give me some warning so that I can cut and paste.

    If this whole thing is really cut and dried simple in the end and I was making a bunch of drama over nothing, I will make a bolded, big font apology!

    Brent


    Speed, yeah I WANT six gears and that is ONE thing I am sure of! LOL (again) this time it is a relieved LOL as I actually KNOW something!
     
  8. Dukes72

    Dukes72 Veteran Member

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    Please do not delete any of this thread. If someone who really wants to learn the details about this stuff before doing the work does not have time to read 7 (maybe +) pages, they should not be doing the work themselves. I have been subscribing to this thread from day one. I would like to do this change over in the future and don't find this thread confusing, I do find it incredibly informative. I don't know a lot about this mod, but I do know some folks quickly write off the external balance sbc as though it is an internal- I have a 406 and wish to the day I had it internally balanced to simplify my life.
    If your journey to this swap was a snap, I doubt you (and me) would learn half as much as what you know now. I prefer not to ask the stock boy where a can of beans are located- I would rather find them myself and learn where everything else is on the journey.
     
  9. drptop70ss

    drptop70ss Veteran Member

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    To use all of the factory LT1 parts, including a clutch/PP/throwout and hydraulic linkage you should be able to get a flywheel from centerforce, here is a link. They have what looks to be the correct 2 piece rear main 383 flywheel listed here to use the LT1 clutch. Then you could forget about the bell change, adapter plates, input shaft change, and mechanical linkage.

    Looks like the top one on the list is the one you want, 153 tooth externally balanced.

    http://www.centerforce.com/clutches...tep1&flymake=CHEVROLET - SPECIAL APPLICATIONS
     
  10. Speed Happy '77

    Speed Happy '77 Veteran Member

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    Better rewind and snap my own mouth shut... I just meant the whole thing was getting convoluted, and we should start it over fresh with all the big questions all together. It's getting hard to track who has answered what and whether or not you considered that resolved. Otherwise, I LOVE this thread. It's challenging.

    I've been frustrated by the lack of clarity on things a lot before, too, so I appreciate how hard you're trying to keep civil. And I love 6-speeds. The one you're getting is, I believe, a .63 final overdrive with a .82 in between. With 3.42, you'll be able to push 120 without your engine breaking a sweat.

    I just replaced my clutch about two months ago. All me, all alone, half frozen, and only lift I was able to get was on some 6" tall blocks. Casting or part numbers on the clutch didn't exist, or at least not anymore, and my whole drivetrain was swapped out with no documentation from an auto L6 to a 4-speed 305. I know the feeling. You might have also picked out that I recalled from memory that a T-56 is 26-32 spline in/out and either 1 1/8" or 1 1/16" input shaft. That's the diameter of the shaft, one of the things you need to know when you buy a clutch. Input shafts can be swapped, especially if it's already getting torn apart anyway.
    Also, if you really intend to just drive it easy, I bought my clutch for $99 brand new from a site.

    What do you mean, mechanical setup? Anyway, the clutch/bellhousing/flywheel on a modern motor are what we like to call "more advanced." Different style. Here's a pair of links on clutch/flywheel:
    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch1.htm
    Look at the whole thing, click to put it all together. As you can see, the bell housing hooks up to the engine outside of the flywheel and clutch. The flywheel and clutch hook to the engine ONLY, so we match them to the motor you've got, not the motor your tranny comes from. Tracking? Ummm... the other link is showing a clutch/flywheel assy. already bolted on a motor. You can see the bolt points outside of it for the bell housing.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Ford_Cologne_V6_2.9_back.jpg
    The only part of the transmission that actually touches the clutch assembly is where the splines meet the clutch disc and where the input shaft rests on the pilot bearing, which comes included in your clutch kit.
     

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