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Discussion in 'High Tech Retrofits' started by earlysecond, Mar 5, 2009.
That is correct!
This needs quantified. Unless you mean space, front to back, I have no idea how that is supposed to matter. The whole space issue is kind of another thing I guess I failed to fully explain: Bell housing depends on the length of the input shaft, clutch and flywheel depend on the bell housing you're putting in, flywheel depends on the kind of engine you're putting in.
Boiled down: I figured it would be cheaper to swap the input shaft if you can.
There's the link where professional people did it with pictures to back it up.
They used a bell housing that allowed room for a "stock" clutch - e.g. full 11"
You need more depth (as provided by this adapter bell housing), which is what I was saying about T-56/LT1 setups versus T-56/SBC setups.
"If your LT1 T56 has a 2.66:1 first gear, you should be able to swap the input shaft for an LS1 input shaft (check with your transmission shop), and then run the standard SBC bellhousing/scattershield of your choice with the adapter plate kit from McLeod. You don't HAVE to buy an adapter bellhousing although you could buy the McLeod modular bellhousing if you preferred.
Before doing anything though, I'd call the McLeod tech line and ask them about what you want to do. I know at one time they marketed the adapter plate with an extended pilot bushing for the LT1 T56" -Mkelcy
That's from HERE: READ IT! http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/archive/index.php4/t-5879.html
Finally separated my forehead from the wall...
Flywheel: I get it. You have a 2-pc. rear main seal. Never dealt with it personally, but it would be counter intuitive to believe that they don't make flywheels that bolt to them just like they make ones for 1-pc. So you buy that one. Balance it.
All this hinges on:
A) Replace the input shaft
B) Use the adapter and get a good, old fashioned bell housing. Then you can use a normal starter, too - $200 otherwise, didn't factor that in. You can also use mechanical linkage, ditch the price of hydraulic if you feel so inclined.
Otherwise you don't actually sound intent on saving money, which is what we have been talking about the whole time. If you want it easy, pay a shop to do it. If you want it a little cheaper and still easy, buy the LT-1 parts and adapter flywheel. If you want it cheap, it won't be easy.
Also: If you're running 2 1/4 grand, this is what 4 grand gets you:
Last comment: If you feel life is okay to live without a middle overdrive gear, then a TKO-500/600 has a .68/.64 overdrive. Your 6-speed ends at .63.
Anything else, and I can be found in the peanut gallery.
Self Imposed GAG order OFF!
Son of a Gun! Just when I get ready to order parts for the third time, the wheels come off again.
Matt, sorry, I did not get your later email. I re-read the last one you sent. The flywheel you pulled out of your car BEFORE the reat blew out, was hooked to a 73 BBC 2pc rear main right? It was then bolted to a pull type clutch that was and mated to a T56 bellhousing from a 1994 (LT1 powered) Camaro? The flywheel that you offered does not appear to be an adapter flywheel yet it was working with a pull style LT1 pressure plate, which you also have. Unless I see something that is NOT there, can you clarifiy this mess?
I saw what I considered to be "any old flywheel" and a pull style pressure plate and it was bolted together and running with a stock bell and T56 out of a 1995 Camaro.
If what you have is an adapter flywheel, which, again it does not appear to be, and all I need to do it rebalance it and hook it up, the deal you are offering me is OUTSTANDING and we will do business. Remember, when I sent you an email I was under the assumption that I could use any old flywheel, at which point, with a clutch the deal you made was still generous.
SO, if the flywheel that you have will definatley work with a stock bellhousing, and a an essentially stock T56 from a '95 Camaro, email me and I will send you money! If it is something else, then let me know.
OK, I do not own the parts, yet but we better start putting picture to all these daggone words:
Matt's Flywheel (the one I thought was just an ordinary one)
Another shot, he was trying to figure out where it came from, because it was in his car when he bought it, that just might BE a SPEC bran SFI label:
Here us the clutch and pressure plate that he took out, looks like a Valeo unit that Todd references in pictures on his website. It is a pull unit, engaged when in the normal relaxed position, disengaged when the clutch fork pulls the throw out towards the tranny NOT pushes it toward the engine:
While we have out the camera How about a shot of what I have been calling an "LT1 T56" a stock unit with bell from a '93-'97 Camaro:
One reason that the input shaft on these is short, shallow bell, this is the exact reason that, in stock form, they fit so dang sweet into a second gen allowing the shifter hole, which must be cut, to come up through the floor AHEAD of the transmisssion hump reinforcing rib (I do NOT know this for fact but have read it, Todd's is an example):
Matt, my public apologies, I totally misunderstood what you were telling me about the flywheel. If you have there, what we are calling and adapter flywheel that will work and all that it needs is balanced, I will be sending money!
An input shaft change is out of the question. Because the T56 is essentially built up on top of that front plate, I would not swap shafts without a rebuild which automatically sends this whole project away due to cost. Further I was never able to source an LS style front plate anywhere, somebody needs to make an adapter version of the "mid plate" front cover for both style trannys.
The good news is that I did find some new, hydraulics on Ebay for <$150 which is a pretty good savings.
OK, I will wait to hear from or talk with Matt to, once again, further clarify what he has. IF it is what we have come to call an "adapter" flywheel that needs rebalanced, I will buy it from him, since he did offer me a hard to pass up price, even with the necessary rebalance!
Hopefully, we are all starting to get on the same page. I hear cogs turning in peoples brains, I smell smoke. For that, I am grateful!
Brent, no apoligies needed man! It is easy to get turned around when reading this stuff!
What i have in the above pictures is an adapter flywheel! I dont know if it was made by spec or not but it is an adapter wheel! Not your everyday big block flywheel from the 70's! It is made to go on a 2 peice rear main, has the necessary clearance for an lt1 clutch and takes up the space from front to back of the car to accomidate the short input shaft of your trans!
Also brent if you were to see this flywheel in person it would really stand out as not normal! It is well over an inch thick chunk of metal!
Yes that was a deal but would not work in brents application as it appears to be an lt1 1 peice rear main flywheel so it would not fit his motor. Now if he was using your motor that would have been the ticket!!!
I also feel for the seller knowing what the street twin he went with costs! My checkbook cried for months after I bought my street twin for my car!!!
Thus the mention of swapping the input shaft, which was on the table. We're talking about saving him money, therefore looking for ways around the big money option. Yes, the shifter might match up a little better with the short shaft, but who is kidding whom? All "perfect fit" kits still employ an offset shifter for that purpose.
And I just have to comment on the flywheel being an inch thick and somehow an adapter to make room in there... it's ironic sounding, you have to admit.
You would have to change the input shaft and buy an adapter plate to use a stock 2nd gen bell plus all the clutch linkages which he has none of to use a mechanical clutch. If he was going to use hydraulic similar to an ls1 clutch he would need a different face plate on the transmission plus a different bell and input shaft.
On the fly wheel there is no adapter plus the flywheel! The fly wheel itself is the adapter and there are pictures of it in this thread. I dont understand what part of that you cant get your head around. It makes the stock lt1 setup from the clutch disc back bolt right on and work with the stock lt1 t56 bell.
Since we skipped friendly, I'll use little words.
The flywheel being the adapter... I got that. Never said otherwise. Read the post before the mouth goes into action.
Translation for the English impaired:
The flywheel being:
A) An inch thick
B) An adapter
Be nice next time. It's so much easier.
Needed: 1) Adapter plate for the bell 2) New input shaft 3) Linkage
Otherwise need: 1) Adapter flywheel for the bell 2) LS1 starter 3) Hydraulic clutch assembly
Sorry I wasnt trying to be unfriendly about it but you seem to make it sound like this flywheel is some sort of an abortion, but it is offered by all the major aftermarket clutch companies. Everytime everyone starts to clear there head on what he can do using the parts he has you start saying that the other way is so much easier and cheaper which I dont believe it is since he has not a single component to do it that way. Why would all the companies make these adapter components if it were so easy to convert this like you say?
You are incorrect on the parts list as well, he will need another flywheel, clutch, and bell as well since he is switching from an auto car to manual for your way, so tac those on to the price list as well.
Also he will not need a ls1 starter, any small block 153 tooth starter will work be it a stock lt1 or a dual bolt pattern mini starter with an adapter flywheel.
Either way this will not be overly cheap because he is starting out with nothing but the transmission. If this was a 4 speed car than yes there would be a very good chance that your way could be cheaper. But with the price I have offered up the adapter flywheel and clutch at you cant buy the input shaft and adapter plate to create your setup for the same money. Even if you could he would still be short a flywheel, clutch, and bell.