To power assist brakes or manual?

Discussion in 'Suspension, Steering, Brake & Wheel Topics' started by TCinthe6, Jan 9, 2019.

Manual brakes or power assisted?

  1. Manual

    42.9%
  2. Power

    57.1%
  1. TCinthe6

    TCinthe6 Member

    36
    6
    Nov 5, 2017
    Toronto, Canada
    In the middle of installing some upper and lower control arms from Keith, and since I had to knock the upper and lower ball joints out and have access to the spindle, I am contemplating doing my brake upgrade now.

    The issue I'm facing is that if I buy a bunch of new parts, I kind of have to buy everything together...master, calipers, rotors etc. The question I'm trying to answer is if I should go power assisted or keep the car manual.

    The car has stock discs upfront and stock drums from a Ford 9" inch, without any booster. For taking off speed when there's a long run-off, it's no big deal. But in the city if I have to stop in a hurry, I have to stand on the brakes to get this 3800 sled to stop.

    The intent is to upgrade to Baer 13 inch rotors with 4 piston calipers all around.

    So the opinions I'm trying to solicit are if you think I should plan to set the brakes up with a manual master cylinder and hope that the caliper and rotor upgrade is good enough, or just order a master with a larger bore size to accommodate a booster.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. G72Zed

    G72Zed Veteran Member

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    85
    Sep 8, 2015
    Canada
    I would think if your engine combo produces a good descent vacuum signal to properly support the booster, I would go power assisted. Talk to the brake company/manufacturer your buying from & working with to find out what they "like" to see as far as vacuum, generally around the 14-18" vac. range, +/- pending booster & who you talk too.
     
  3. TCinthe6

    TCinthe6 Member

    36
    6
    Nov 5, 2017
    Toronto, Canada
    I actually called Baer direct, and they said that 90% of their customers run manual brakes. I'm actually blown away at that number, but who knows.
     
  4. badazz81z28

    badazz81z28 Veteran Member

    15,225
    213
    May 4, 2001
    Las Vegas, NV
    I wonder who these customers are...I honestly don’t know how they would even know that. Most of their sales are rotors and calipers and most of their products are sold by venders. I call bs. 90% is a lot and I hardly ever see manual brakes in the pt world
     
  5. C4Racer

    C4Racer Veteran Member

    309
    29
    Oct 26, 2018
    Ya agree. How would they get that data ?

    I agree - power if the motor makes vacuum.
    Mine makes none and probably never will is manual for me. But it’s a lot trickier to come up with a good performing setup with manual. It can be done. Do plenty of research and get some experts to help you design it properly if you go that route.
     
  6. G72Zed

    G72Zed Veteran Member

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    Sep 8, 2015
    Canada
    X2 ^^, very good points made here by C4Racer.
     
  7. G72Zed

    G72Zed Veteran Member

    627
    85
    Sep 8, 2015
    Canada
    Wow, that's surprising and up there @ 90% for manual setup, as B.A said, how would they know that.

    I have gone through (and researched) this "manual vs power" dilemma during my build, lot's to contemplate and decide what you want out of the system and how it will truly be used. (I ended up with manual, for feel and lack of vacuum)

    FWIW, perhaps there's something more to this. Could it be that Baer Brakes is using & referring (as and example) to one of the more famous "Pro Touring" 2nd gen's that run their "Track System" brakes, M. Pozzi's 73 Camaro since the start?. Interesting that the car started out with a ZZ383 twin piston Baer/PBR calipers and a brake booster (pic1), my guess is that the ZZ383 had enough vacuum to operate them properly.

    Then, during the Pozzi's "3 link rear" - LS2 upgrade they converted to manual Wilwood tandem (pic2), had Baer 6P by then.

    Next (last one perhaps) iteration with the Art Morrison front sub and complete IRS with the Dry sump LS7, they look to go to a "CNC" style dual manual MC (pic3).
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  8. C4Racer

    C4Racer Veteran Member

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    Oct 26, 2018
    I’m guessing the LS2 and LS7 both have enough vacuum to run a booster too. Yet they are manual.
    Interesting. Thanks for posting those !
     
  9. G72Zed

    G72Zed Veteran Member

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    Sep 8, 2015
    Canada
    Well the LS2-402ci made 580hp on the dyno, and the Lingenfelter dry sump'd LS7 427ci must have made a good bit more, don't know how much.

    Maybe the vacuum was low on both, who know's, or maybe she just prefers the way you can modulate with the extra travel and overall "feel".
     
  10. TCinthe6

    TCinthe6 Member

    36
    6
    Nov 5, 2017
    Toronto, Canada
    No idea what the point of reference was from Baer, but I'm going with an assisted setup. I won't have a problem with vacuum from my LS376, and I'm going to be on the street >90% of the time.

    Will pull the trigger on a this kit from Baer next week. 13 inch rotors and 4 pod calipers. Should do fine for street duty. And just finished installing new upper and lower control arms from Keith. Guess I'll be taking all that apart again!

    One last question - any recommendations on a decent looking booster? I can't stand the stuff that looks like a big ol' dinner plate stuck to the firewall.

    [​IMG]
     

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