Alignment Problem Still

Discussion in 'Suspension, Steering, Brake & Wheel Topics' started by K1ng0011, Mar 19, 2016.

  1. vlmohr

    vlmohr Veteran Member

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    To adjust camber you move the upper ball joint in or out. To adjust caster you move the upper ball joint forward or to the rear. And your bolts all look to be the same length. The drivers side just has more shims in them. Seems to be a normal thing. Mine is the same way.

    As stated earlier most shops align by getting the numbers in the green on their machine. To properly adjust a car the numbers may have to be in the red.

    I adjust my own cars at the dealership I work at. Most of the techs are in a hurry and don't want to play with it to get where I want it adjusted to. Hell, if they saw my specs they'd say it was way out. I used to turn wrenches so I tend to ignore the colors and just adjust to where I want it.
     
  2. APEowner

    APEowner Veteran Member

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    The adjustments all interact to some extent. If you just add shims to the rear to get more caster you'll also be adding camber. Generally if you're happy with the camber and want to adjust caster you'll need to add to the back and remove an equal amount from the front.

    On the OP's car there are no shims in the front on the passenger side so there's no way to add more caster without adding more camber. There are a few things that can result in running out of adjustment on these cars.

    Worn control arm bushings (which the OP has replaced)
    Miss-aligned sub-frame
    Bent sub-frame
    Rolled sub-frame

    Some alignment racks will show a sub-frame that's misaligned as a thrust angle issue and I think that may be what's going on with the OP's car. One of the things that'll cause the sub-frame to move on these cars is shot sub-frame bushings and they'll also make them a bit unstable to drive.

    A bent sub-frame would be one that was hit at some point. That's usually pretty obvious because to hit one hard enough to bend it you usually have to dent it as well.

    The sub-frames on these cars will also roll in at the top over time. If you look at one from the front and think about how the forces push in the top of the rails and pull out at the bottom and how unsupported they are you can see how that happens. That's also why the g-braces are so effective. Back in the 80's when I did alignments for a living we used to chain the upper rails to the alignment rack and jack up on the center of the cross-member to roll the rails back out.

    All of that is really a long way of saying that the OP needs to take it to a shop that has an alignment tech that understands these cars. If they have to order shims then go somewhere else. Preferably where they have a tech that's older than the car.
     
  3. Fbird

    Fbird Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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  4. APEowner

    APEowner Veteran Member

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    This is not how you should adjust these. The nuts on both ends should be tight enough to push the outer washers to the stops.
     
  5. Fbird

    Fbird Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=20196&d=1458421424

    ok....Your Passenger side upper control arm shaft... needs to be flipped over.
    Thats why you have NO shims yet camber is good.

    Look at the OFFSET ... when you flip it over (just spin it) you will notice the upper control arm will then be pushed OUT... ie positive acmber and therfore require shims to PULL it back inward. This in turn will allow the kid aligning it to shim your CASTER as neded.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  6. APEowner

    APEowner Veteran Member

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  7. Fbird

    Fbird Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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  8. APEowner

    APEowner Veteran Member

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    I do believe that Fbird nailed it! The OP's car seems to already have offset shafts in it and the passenger side is in wrong. Nice catch Fbird!
     
  9. vlmohr

    vlmohr Veteran Member

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    Good eye, I missed it also.
     
  10. K1ng0011

    K1ng0011 Veteran Member

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    Thanks for everyone's input on this. I have read over the comments of everyone. Just been saving up for an alignment tool set. I must be blind since I missed Fbirds comment of my control arm shaft being backwards on the passenger side. I got a new upper control arm bolt to replace the shorter one. I am going to get a quick-trick alignment set and new upper ball joints. Do my plans below look good?

    My Plans

    * - New Taller Upper Ball Joints from ridetech.
    * - Quck-trick alignment tool set.
    * - Switch the passenger side control arm around.
    * - Install the new bolt for the driver side control arm.
    * - Set the alignment
    * - I will aim for as much positive caster as possible and a little negative camber.
     

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