Anything look off on this '70 Z28?

Discussion in '1970 - 1973 Specific' started by Deanriffs, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. Deanriffs

    Deanriffs New Member

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    Yes, totally agree.

    Yep, front bumpers look crooked to me too.

    I wonder how bad the back panel will look in person. That's prob what, around $1K for a body shop to fix properly?

    How do you all find the performance difference for manual vs. automatic transmission on these?

    I'm heading out there for a look-see and prob drive it too within an hour.
     
  2. Gary S

    Gary S Administrator Lifetime Gold Member

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    There is not much difference in performance between the auto and a 4 speed. If you look back to the 60s and 70s of NHRA stock class racing where these cars raced in stock form, they had separate classes for auto and manual tranny. The manual tranny in the hands of a good driver would beat the auto so separate classes were needed to be competitive. A manual tranny tranny in the hands of a poor driver would lose to an auto car in the hands of a poor driver because driving the auto required no skill while driving a manual to top potential requires a lot of skill to power shift the tranny with the engine at full throttle without ever lifting your foot off the gas.

    Performance isn't the main reason today for the auto vs manual decision. Sheer pleasure from driving and shifting a Muncie equipped car makes it worth more to most buyers.
     
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  3. COPO

    COPO Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Knock off $ for the incorrect dash etc. Lots of minuses here to get the price down if you want an auto trans.
     
  4. Deanriffs

    Deanriffs New Member

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    I did go check out this car today, took a TON of photos (links below to the albums), drove it, and saw it on a lift. Full report below.

    Positives:
    - Started right up, idled very smoothly
    - Engine ran strong on drive; responsive throttle
    - Transmission shifted smoothly
    - Exhaust sounds fantastic: nice burble, a bit loud, but not crazy loud
    - Body felt tight on drive, same for steering for this era car
    - Brakes worked maybe a little better than expected/from memory of driving my buddy's car
    - Tires are in good shape
    - Body lines looks pretty darn straight overall for a driver, albeit a replaced panel, hood gaps a little funky and rear panel under trunk
    - Underside interior of doors look pretty good
    - Doors close solidly & locks work
    - Glove box and center armrest console open and shut well
    - Vents & fan work
    - The only larger places I saw rust needing work was in the usual places at bottom corners of windshield
    - What looked like surface rust near the trunk lid hinges I found by rubbing was primarily grease or dirt
    - To me, overall, looks and feels like a solid driver/kind of a survivor with light mods
    - All gauges work (ex clock)
    - The underneath of the car looks surprisingly good to me. We found a tranny casting number, shown in one of the photos, but not sure that means much. I assume the real VIN-related number is hidden..
    - Seats move back and forth as designed, don't seem to squeak much
    - Headliner is in quite good shape
    - Firewall tag shows it was assembled in Norwood, has Z28 option, etc. More on engine tag below.

    Negatives
    - Rust under front windshield corners as shown in my photos.
    - Looks like some sketchy rust repair at rear bottom of passenger side door outside of sill.
    - Small bubble of rust above passenger door
    - Front bumpers looks slightly crooked to me.
    - Rear view mirror is losing some of the silver
    - Replaced dash, and there is a bit of a sag/gap at top
    - Interior door panels/cards have a gap at top/sag
    - Dome light doesn't work
    - Warning light on dash doesn't come on
    - Trunk lid doesn't stay open/must be propped open
    - Gaps on hood look slightly off to me
    - Shift indicator on dash i.e. the orange line doesn't work to indicate gear. That was interesting...drove 1/4 mile in L2 until we figured it out.
    - While windows crank up and down pretty well, there is about a 1/4 gap on passenger side next to upper seal
    - Bright work is pretty hazy/worn, especially around windows, door sills and rear bumper; but just looks original/not abused. Bottom of passenger rear trim has a bit of a gap/pops up a little.
    - No wood grain on steering wheel; I'm okay with that for now I suppose.
    - Drivers' side windshield wiper wasn't attached correctly, flopped off. Maybe that will be an easy fix.
    - No documentation. Car was said to have been sourced from PA.

    Neutral
    - Awaiting a photo of the VIN from the 350, to arrive on Monday.
    - I believe the GM sticker on door is not correct - maybe for Gen 1s it is? No big deal.
    - Not crazy about chrome pieces under hood, but could replace easily
    - Clock doesn't work (which I expect on an older car)
    - 17 17 PNT code, which I believe means that it was originally Shadow Gray. That's a badass color, in my view.
    - Not sure if gaps between doors and front quarters are correct; but look fairly consistent between the sides.

    Three groups of photos I took:
    https://imgur.com/gallery/x3mEzpV
    https://imgur.com/gallery/kunQBH5
    https://imgur.com/gallery/9eojVCu

    The salesman and I couldn't view the engine tag because of the alternator being in the way (we believe). He's going to have a mechanic loosen it and send me a photo on Monday.

    The sign in the window says they were originally asking $38,900. They've dropped it $9K per the online listing. What are your thoughts on this car as a candidate for a driver for cruise nights, etc. and doing some improvements here and there?
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  5. 70lt1z28

    70lt1z28 Veteran Member Gold Member

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    OK. I'll be blunt. I may get some push back from other folks on the forum, but this is my opinion.
    Unless you are IN LOVE with this car, walk away.
    The "minor" stuff first:
    It's missing at least a couple of key items that point to a real Z28. It has a "hanging' gas pedal. Z28's in 1970 and 1971 were the only Camaro's with a floor mounted gas pedal. Google it or look around on this forum to see what that is. Not many good reasons for anyone to have changed it really. There are supposedly a very few exceptions to this rule, but it was the norm not the exception.
    It's missing the rear bumper "fangs" that Z28's had. Not a big deal here and not the first, but another clue. The rear sway bar setup is from a later year Camaro or is aftermarket. again, not a show stopper unto itself, but another clue. There are actually many more of these scattered around.

    The BIG thing for me is that the trim tag and its sequence number 235214 is totally out of sync with the VIN number of 541247! As an example, mine is a 255463 and a 524719 and a 04B (second week of April build) car. Basically, from the time Fisher body put the Trim tag on (one of the first things in the build process) to the time the VIN was attached, the car was pulled of the line for about a month. That just didn't happen. Either the TT or the VIN has been changed out. There are hidden VINs on the car that were there to help law enforcement identify stolen cars. There is one under the heater blower motor but good luck getting the to remove it for inspection. It's buried in the passenger side fender on the firewall.

    Not to mention I think this is a body work nightmare waiting to happen. Too many little things bubbling out.

    You can do better for this amount of cash.

    Just IMO.

    Good luck.
     
  6. Zstar

    Zstar Veteran Member

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    ^^^^What he said.
     
  7. restore-z28

    restore-z28 Veteran Member

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    Exactly what I see, there are more questions than answers with this one. To me it would appear that Trim Tag might have been off that car, a sign would be the filling of the rivet holes.
     
  8. Camaro Tim01

    Camaro Tim01 Veteran Member

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    I agree walk away not worth 30...

    Have you typed in 1970 camaro on ebay ?
    I havent looked at any of these but for sure you will find a much better one , there's tons
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Camaro/143662564120?hash=item2172f4c318:g:hbYAAOSwcS9fFtmX

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Chevr...321043?hash=item1ceef81913:g:YdwAAOSwvCpfFx~g

    55K, all documented, private collector :
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Chevr...328170?hash=item2f46dca4ea:g:OaQAAOSwvi9fE1gw

    20k decent looking, seems better than what you had for 30K
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Chevr...978911?hash=item3b4aeae69f:g:f5gAAOSwriZewqn9

    what ever price range you want from 5k-70k

    dont think you better jump on one that you find because you cant find another, there's alot out there still, take your time, you worked hard for your money.
     
  9. 70lt1z28

    70lt1z28 Veteran Member Gold Member

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    Probably right, Sonny.
    The spacing on the top line is wrong also. The NOR is usually up against the sequence number and a space before it from the model number. What got me was the corrosion under-around the TT looks like it has never been off the car, but sometimes that is done to fool you.
     
  10. COPO

    COPO Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    I would not buy a car until gong over the body with my metal strength detector for detecting bondo. Besides thee are too many things wrong on this car to list. That oil pan is not from a LT1, at least 2 rims are not 1970, the Master cylinder looks like a 1st Gen, wrong gas pedal just to name a few. I hope the hockey stick comes with the car to hold the trunk lid up.

    There are lots of places where rust is ready to bust through the paint. Walk away from this disaster that will become a money pit. This is simply a cover up and no restoration in my eyes.

    Who ever installed the gauge cluster needs to be kicked in the nuts along with the rest of the work. Good lord.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020

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