Do I really need a roller cam?

[jakeshoe]

I won't run a flat tappet in anything anymore.

It was touched on here. The parts quality isn't there anymore. Its NOT an oil issue.

There isn't an OEM that uses a flat tappet cam anymore and hasn't been for almost 20 years. The aftermarket doesn't have to meet OEM QC requirements.

A roller cam is just part of the cost of a build anymore.

 

[sandlapper]

GM did also use the moniker vortex in early days.

 

[tom3]

I really missed the boat on a roller setup some years ago. Had this old 400 that was a future project and saw the Edelbrock Performer Plus roller cam complete retro-fit kit for some under $800 complete. That was the cam I had in mind and the roller setup was huge plus. Sat on my wallet and that deal is long gone. Not sure they even have this now-a-days.

 

[slayer021175666]

ditto pass on gen II LT1 & LT4 --- reverse flow block and head, cam driven WP ---ignition-distributor often a bad dream --- their comb chambers are good and came from same drawing board as Gen Ie L31 Vortec vin R. ALL Gen II have 1 pc rms.

BUT, if LT1/LT4 were so good, then why did they continue only some 5 years ??? --- because they weren't & aren't.

Also, 1 pc rms roller motors have an entirely different cam retention system that's machined into front of block and uses a step-nose cam along with "thrust-plate."--- good system --- precludes any need for a "cam button."

I've published a link to a comprehensive Vortec L31 repair manual here at Nasty ... it has pics & part numbers --- authored by GM --- can edjamacate some --- look it up here www.kohlerpower.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/tp6104.pdf

about the only thing from a Gen I that can be used with Gen II is if your Gen I has 1 pc rms crank. Rods & pistons wll interchange too.

Simply, forget Gen II stuff --- unless ya have a very large budget and loads of hardhead-dumbazz and ya wish to abuse-misappropriate that budget.

I can't get the Vortec repair manual link to work. I'd really like to see it.

 

[G72Zed]

I won't run a flat tappet in anything anymore.

It was touched on here. The parts quality isn't there anymore. Its NOT an oil issue.

There isn't an OEM that uses a flat tappet cam anymore and hasn't been for almost 20 years. The aftermarket doesn't have to meet OEM QC requirements.

A roller cam is just part of the cost of a build anymore.

You are right about the quality these days, some parts/companies worse than others, funny how the GM Crates that use FT hyd lifters don't suffer this issue.

They make 40+ more points than advertised, and get banged off the chip night after night for 2-3-4 even 5 seasons.....makes you wonder.

I now use Tool steel solid lifters, no "soft" metal to ef up or needles to come out.

 

[djorgensen3]

I have a 2pc crank in a 1pc block. The adapter was a little over $100 amd works just fine. I did have to make my own gasket but I did seal it up good with permatex. I've had no issues yet.

 

[besserspat]

G72Zed ,thats exactly what I was going to say. We raced and built tons of circle track 350,358,377 and 406s, all flat tappet and while most restricted classes are lift, similar to NHRA SS class racing still run big arse duration (+270s @.050), low lift, tight LSA cams, spinning cheap stock cranked claimer classes 350s to 7200-7700 RPM and built engines quite a bit over 8000+ PRM...

I honestly believe that when anyone starts "dreaming" of a faster car, a more powerful engine or just hoping to go faster. The person should be as honest as possible with themselves when it comes to realistic budget and goals.

If they just want something fun, not trying to be the "king" at the local Dairy Queen, and want to still have money to take the kids and wife camping next summer. A mild flat tappet ( under [email protected] and .550) properly installed and broken in and running good lube should be pretty much without drama.

But if you want anything above that milder street oriented set up, a stock GM roller block with stock style lifters would provide a great deal of peace of mind.

While I agree that the quality of cam cores like most parts in this industry has really gone down the drain...This is also true for roller rockers,roller lifters, roller cams.

The crazy costs of the roller retrofitting rabbit hole ( Cam, lifters, new pushrods, roller rockers, cam button/plate/timing cover, "sacrificial" or melonized dizzy gear etc etc...
Have pushed customers towards the crappy and "ever name changing" chinese components sold on ebay or other well known outfits, then hello little needles everywhere.

Peter

 

[jakeshoe]

You are right about the quality these days, some parts/companies worse than others, funny how the GM Crates that use FT hyd lifters don't suffer this issue.

They make 40+ more points than advertised, and get banged off the chip night after night for 2-3-4 even 5 seasons.....makes you wonder.

I now use Tool steel solid lifters, no "soft" metal to ef up or needles to come out.

It was quickly recognizable as BS when all the cam companies starting blaming break-in and oil for the failures and it all seemed to start around the early 2000s when there was a lifter shortage.

GM crate motors likely use a super mellow profile and are getting whatever is left out there that is half ass quality and has to meet some QC process that the rest of us aren't getting.

The OEMs didn't have to pull valve springs, break in for 20 minutes at 2000+ rpm, etc even on their hot profiles with double valve springs.

When you can't keep a name brand cam lifter set of any name brand in a SBC, SBF, BBC, or any other motor all of the sudden after building literally hundreds of engines, the parts are junk.
I took the SBF stuff and had it hardness tested and it wasn't a hardness issue. Mild profile, old Magnum [email protected], tame springs, broken in with fancy oil and died within an hour. Not a .842 diam either.
It's junk and there's no reason to risk it. Budget for decent parts. Not Ebay roller lifters. Isky, Crower, Morel.

I wouldn't even buy a crate with a flat tappet.

 

[krabben1]

You are right about the quality these days, some parts/companies worse than others, funny how the GM Crates that use FT hyd lifters don't suffer this issue.

They make 40+ more points than advertised, and get banged off the chip night after night for 2-3-4 even 5 seasons.....makes you wonder.

I now use Tool steel solid lifters, no "soft" metal to ef up or needles to come out.

Mellings and about(last I heard) five other companies use a company here in the US to make theyre flat tappets.I felt very comfortable using it in my 468,where it still lives today.

 

[CorkyE]

yes an 880 block is aa great choice

I have this block, has fuel pump boss and 4 bolt main.