Electric Car Road Tax

[danbrennan]

Yeah, I've been thinking for a while, with so many of the major OEMs introducing EVs in the next few years, Tesla is in for some stiff competition.

Plus Tesla is both an auto company and a tech company, both of which tend to get hammered during a recession. And everybody is predicting a recession for 2023.

 

[Todd80Z28]

Wow, Tesla stock is getting hammered,

View attachment 153083

I wonder if Tesla, the company not Musk, will take this as an opportunity to launch the stock buyback that's been rumored for a while?

As noted, Musk has been selling- and behaving- like a madman. The drop also illuminates the dirty little secret that is Float. And I don't think Tesla has a big enough war chest to start buying back much stock, and rates are now too high to borrow to do that. That might be why Musk is squawking so loud about the Fed and rates on Twitter in the past few days.

I seem to missed where they addresses the service life of the battery versus a gas engine and what to do with a battery when it is dead and how that is still supposed to be better for us?

Service life is still an unknown. Lots of data out there suggesting that most will last 250k miles+, but some of that is extrapolated and/or accelerated life data, so we'll see. Batteries age on charge cycles, but to an extent, they just age on time as well. The time factor is a bigger concern to me, since we keep our cars a long time, usually. The battery management systems keep a pretty tight reign on the cells in order to maximize life, most (except the Leaf, perhaps) should go a minimum of 1500 full charge cycles- that's 300k miles on a 200 mile battery. Virtually all brands warranty the HV battery for 8 years, so you have until the end of 2030 if you buy new today before you need to worry about that. I suspect the battery market will look vastly different by then.

Lots of 2nd life plans out there- using EV battery packs for stationary storage after a life in an EV. A pack with 60-70% capacity and a reduced ability to deliver peak current (100s of amps at full accel) can still be quite useful for home/grid backup. Beyond that, recycling... which is just getting started, but the material will be too valuable to just dump it, I think.

How's it better? Comparing my i3 to the TL it replaced- I've saved $2149.33 in "fuel" over 15098 miles since I bought it in Feb 2021. That's using real data from my TL mileage log, realtime prices for gas (from the MDX log) the way I buy it (mostly at Costco), and the real cost of the electricity I'm putting into the car (including very occasional use of rapid chargers- mostly EA and EVGo). So if I drive it a total of 100k miles while I own it, I will have saved just over $14,000 in fuel. If I have to scrap the car at 120k miles, it will have almost paid for itself in fuel savings. A $60k EV would have made me a bit more nervous, so I got my feet wet with this dorky little car.

 

[John Wright]

As noted, Musk has been selling- and behaving- like a madman. The drop also illuminates the dirty little secret that is Float. And I don't think Tesla has a big enough war chest to start buying back much stock, and rates are now too high to borrow to do that. That might be why Musk is squawking so loud about the Fed and rates on Twitter in the past few days.

Service life is still an unknown. Lots of data out there suggesting that most will last 250k miles+, but some of that is extrapolated and/or accelerated life data, so we'll see. Batteries age on charge cycles, but to an extent, they just age on time as well. The time factor is a bigger concern to me, since we keep our cars a long time, usually. The battery management systems keep a pretty tight reign on the cells in order to maximize life, most (except the Leaf, perhaps) should go a minimum of 1500 full charge cycles- that's 300k miles on a 200 mile battery. Virtually all brands warranty the HV battery for 8 years, so you have until the end of 2030 if you buy new today before you need to worry about that. I suspect the battery market will look vastly different by then.

Lots of 2nd life plans out there- using EV battery packs for stationary storage after a life in an EV. A pack with 60-70% capacity and a reduced ability to deliver peak current (100s of amps at full accel) can still be quite useful for home/grid backup. Beyond that, recycling... which is just getting started, but the material will be too valuable to just dump it, I think.

How's it better? Comparing my i3 to the TL it replaced- I've saved $2149.33 in "fuel" over 15098 miles since I bought it in Feb 2021. That's using real data from my TL mileage log, realtime prices for gas (from the MDX log) the way I buy it (mostly at Costco), and the real cost of the electricity I'm putting into the car (including very occasional use of rapid chargers- mostly EA and EVGo). So if I drive it a total of 100k miles while I own it, I will have saved just over $14,000 in fuel. If I have to scrap the car at 120k miles, it will have almost paid for itself in fuel savings. A $60k EV would have made me a bit more nervous, so I got my feet wet with this dorky little car.

I just replaced the dead lead acid batteries in my golf cart with a single Allied 48v 105ah lithium battery and I'm very happy with the purchase at the moment. I get several days on a charge and this cart gets used every day checking on the cattle and riding and checking the fence lines. I dare say I get over 30 miles on a charge and it's barely below 60% when I top it back off. I'm getting ready to do a motor swap from the factory DC motor to an AC conversion. This swap should get me better efficiency (read speed) and longer range out of the battery. We'll see. I need a GPS speedo with an odometer to check how far that thing does go on a charge.

 

[BARNFIND]

My EV...plugged in...LOL (gotta keep it warm).

 

[Todd80Z28]

LOL Barnfind. The oil is probably closer to molasses these past couple days.

I just replaced the dead lead acid batteries in my golf cart with a single Allied 48v 105ah lithium battery and I'm very happy with the purchase at the moment. I get several days on a charge and this cart gets used every day checking on the cattle and riding and checking the fence lines. I dare say I get over 30 miles on a charge and it's barely below 60% when I top it back off. I'm getting ready to do a motor swap from the factory DC motor to an AC conversion. This swap should get me better efficiency (read speed) and longer range out of the battery. We'll see. I need a GPS speedo with an odometer to check how far that thing does go on a charge.

That's interesting. For mileage, you could use a GPS app on your phone, should work well enough. I don't recall what I used, but it only tracked mileage when it was open. Then you just have to remember to use it every time you are in the cart lol.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Tesla owner says he had to cancel Christmas plans because car would not charge in freezing weather

Virginia radio personality Domenick Nati says he had to cancel Christmas plans because his Tesla S car would not charge when he plugged it in at multiple sites.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Tesla fined $2.2M for exaggerating driving range of its vehicles: report

South Korea is fining Tesla $2.2 million, claiming the automaker misled customers about the range of its vehicles in cold temperatures.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[John Wright]

LOL Barnfind. The oil is probably closer to molasses these past couple days.

That's interesting. For mileage, you could use a GPS app on your phone, should work well enough. I don't recall what I used, but it only tracked mileage when it was open. Then you just have to remember to use it every time you are in the cart lol.

Just did an AC PM conversion with the Teekon Silver Wolf kit on the cart(similar to the Tesla motor technology)....hoping for even better efficiency (and Speed!). A quick run up showed 26 mph on the standard setting. Emailed the mfg for a code to unlock the Sport mode that is supposed to add more speed and torque.

 

[ULTM8Z]

The incremental march toward forcing us to eat bugs is continues apace...

Climate impact labels could help people eat less red meat

Information on environmental impact can persuade consumers against carbon-heavy food choices, says study

www.theguardian.com

And BTW, you'll have to cook those bugs on an electric stove that may or may not have any electricity to power it when the electric grid eventually crashes and the government starts switching off your electricity to "solve" the problem.

Federal agency is considering a ban on gas stoves in the US, report says: 'Hidden hazard'

The CPSC has been considering a ban on gas stoves since the fall. Pollutants emitted from them have been tied to asthma and other respiratory issues.

www.usatoday.com

 

[SPG]

artificial meat will allow us to hold less cows which produce a bunch of methane, regardless of your thoughts on climate change being real or not, dumping a bunch of methane in the air leads to poor air quality which has long term health effects.

The gas stove thing isn't going to rip what you currently have out of your home and would be a process to slowly end buying new ones because burning natural gas has harmful chemicals that is more likely to cause asthma in people. https://www.massmed.org/Publication...ween-Natural-Gas-Stoves-and-Pediatric-Asthma/

One big issue is old homes don't vent oven/range fumes outside of the home and just recirculate it with those crap overhead microwaves with fans. A proper hood vent that goes outside your home helps a lot, but most people don't have that......which is why there are programs to help pay for those types of upgrades.

As for complaining about the grid, I'm not going to touch on that as you seem to complain about it alot without acknowleding the improvements that have been done to mitigate power outages that have been previously pointed out.