chevyJeff1
Veteran Member
Don’t think the EPA has their hands in everything? Go buy a new gas can and try to use it.
EPA armed agents' raids on car shops would be curtailed under Hill proposal
- Thread starter danbrennan
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Its all about money in a sense, to get carb approved cost TONS, it takes ford about 2 years to release the carb approved mustang ford performance tunes, small mom pops cant afford that kind of dough. soon it'll only be a few big players, roush, ford performance, etc. Which will be weaker tunes, but compliant emissions. if it didn't cost so much to get certified the small guys could jump in the pool too and get it done. but simply most likely isn't possible.
Cali is the ultimate enemy to it all, ie. my state doesnt even have emission checks, but I read the current admin is trying to bring back emission checks everywhere. Which I am all for cleaner air, but some of the tunes run cleaner than stock! as mentioned with the flex fuel post before me. If I was a tuner, I would do tunes for everyone except cali, simply state, not for sale or use in cali to CYA
Cali is the ultimate enemy to it all, ie. my state doesnt even have emission checks, but I read the current admin is trying to bring back emission checks everywhere. Which I am all for cleaner air, but some of the tunes run cleaner than stock! as mentioned with the flex fuel post before me. If I was a tuner, I would do tunes for everyone except cali, simply state, not for sale or use in cali to CYA
So you're getting upset under the premise that ALL tunes make the vehicle run cleaner? Maybe most do but look at the "roll coal" fools and what they put out there. Do you figure the average citizen see those or the guy that discreetly tuned his ride and made better choices? As always with this stuff you need to understand it's the bad apples that ruin it for everyone. The reason the CARB stuff is so expensive is due to extensive testing required under all conditions, look how VW duped the system. They have a huge process in place to help prevent that.
IF people at least tried to play by the rules with this stuff there would be less rules IMO.
I understand it, just sucks. I like the idea of being able to get tunes from anywhere, competition is good, but no competition is bad. The smaller guys simply cant get certified due to all those testing. Motorcycles, they dont even get e checked' but they are running those guys out of business under the premise, that altering ECU of any vehicle is becoming illegal and they are committing crimes, regardless if bike is being tracked or driven on street. Same with track cars, those guys are going to be hit hardest.
I want clean air, and I know tunes can make cars run stronger and leaner cleaner. The problem with the E checks I am going to not support is, if the car passes the sniffer but fails because the ECU was altered, that part shouldn't be a fail. Also, intercoolers etc, they just cool air. But if you dont have a CARB EO sticker on them, failed, altered vehicle in cali.
Only 1 IC for mustang ecoboost, Garret, they charge 1k for it, and its inferior to the other intercoolers but they are the only ones with a EO certified sticker/stamp. Same with airbox's I was reading about aftermarket airbox'intakes failing inspection, (the visual inspection) as it isn't OEM box.
Come on. it sucks in air, has no impact on the air coming out the exhaust. Feels like over reaching there. Wont be long before you cant use any tire size other than what car came with, they will say, your car came with 255/40/19 but now you are 285/35/19 (I use this because I did this change) they could say, fail, go back to OEM equipment or its deemed unsafe.
Heck I know some tire shops wont even let you order different sizing tires other than OEM in my area. No idea why, but its happening already. Stating its against policy to deviate from oem sizing.
We will agree to disagree. IMO the industry brought it on it's self, it was only a mater of time.
The tire thing is a perceived liability by the tire shop, not an EPA thing. Thank the lawyers for that one.
I agree with that, but what about items that dont affect emissions? ie, any different airbox than oem (it just sucks air and looks different), or intercooler just cools more air capacity or less capacity depending on the intercooler, or radiator? as long as the exhaust sniff test is deemed sufficient/clean enough it shouldn't matter anything else. I mean in theory, im sure some people go home and swap everything over and tune their car for til next e check, but I cant see many people doing that.
ULTM8Z
Veteran Member
Government will enforce what it wants to enforce depending on the political messages it wants to send.
Steel, loot, assaul, burn down the town? No problem...
Retune your ECU? They'll send the EPA special forces...
The total lack of proportion here is whats ridiculous. What percentage of car owners even have the desire to modify their cars let alone can afford to do it these days? 1%? .5% Yet they're devoting all this effort to harassing these small businesses?
This isn't the 70s and 80a anymore with people ripping emissions systems off their cars. The cars today... if they're polluting more it's most likely because someone screwed up the calibration and the car won't run right anyway... so the customer won't be satisfied and they'll have to fix it. In which case it's practically a self correcting issue.
Steel, loot, assaul, burn down the town? No problem...
Retune your ECU? They'll send the EPA special forces...
The total lack of proportion here is whats ridiculous. What percentage of car owners even have the desire to modify their cars let alone can afford to do it these days? 1%? .5% Yet they're devoting all this effort to harassing these small businesses?
This isn't the 70s and 80a anymore with people ripping emissions systems off their cars. The cars today... if they're polluting more it's most likely because someone screwed up the calibration and the car won't run right anyway... so the customer won't be satisfied and they'll have to fix it. In which case it's practically a self correcting issue.
In California circa 2008 anything before emissions components was legal. I suspect with most MASS sensors being in the air box now that's the hold up here. I get what you are saying and I pretty much agree with your core reasoning. However in the early days of testing in California they gave the inspector leeway for judgement calls on whether or not a modification caused a problem. They found a $20 bill could buy the leeway and changed the program over the years to eliminate ANY judgement calls. The guys slipping the tech cash screwed up the program for everyone. Now the program run by guys that don't understand cars and they need proof something won't effect the tailpipe numbers. If I was lord of the emissions test it would be straight tail pipe and passive emissions testing only. Make it run clean and don't vent raw gas to the atmosphere and we are good. But it is my opinion the few ruined it for the rest of us. Like the diesel guys did by rolling coal, and VW pointing out the huge blind spot in software.
I’ve actually seen people on fb groups asking for “emission inspectors they could get stickers from” or buying eo stickers off Facebook for their items.
I guess fraud would be a large play in this. Sad. Not just for us to do things, but parts providers and shops who lose incomes because they sell parts that is deemed illegal for people to use/alter car
loss of jobs is sad all around
I guess fraud would be a large play in this. Sad. Not just for us to do things, but parts providers and shops who lose incomes because they sell parts that is deemed illegal for people to use/alter car
loss of jobs is sad all around
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