Old school SBC/BBC to LS family comparo.

Discussion in 'High Tech Retrofits' started by newschool72, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. Knuckle Dragger

    Knuckle Dragger Mayor of Simpleton Staff Member Lifetime Gold Member

    Messages:
    15,594
    Likes Received:
    2,005
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2002
    Location:
    Waddell AZ

    I'm sorry Tom, I have never seen one of your posts where you changed the story when confronted. I'm not sure where you could get an idea I was talking about you or your take on things. 5spd changes the story as the thread develops, then he calls people names. You seem to be able to put forth a believable train of thought and support it.

    LT1, LS1 BB or SB I don't really have enough of an opinion to argue much. I'm reading it to learn something just like 90% of the forum. I just don't like it when the story evolves as the facts are called into question.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  2. 71RS/SS396

    71RS/SS396 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    2,639
    Likes Received:
    42
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Location:
    Wake Forest NC
    You'll never understand the power potential of the LS engines since you live in Ca. and can't modify them. You can easily make 500+ hp with factory parts and an aftermarket cam with an LS. I own cars with both LT and LS engines, while the LT1 and LS1 are relatively close in stock form the gap widens with a cam change since the LS is choked with the factory cam. My LS7 makes 630+ hp @ 6,800 rpm and 600 lb/ft @ 4,000 rpm and pretty much keeps that torque past 6,000. The car runs 11.37 @125 mph with crap 1.89 60ft times in full on auto-x set-up on street tires. My wife's LS2 makes 450 hp at the tires ( never had it on the engine dyno ) and runs mid 12's in 1/4 with 2.2 60 ft times in full on auto-x set-up. Both of these cars would be quite a bit quicker with a tall sidewall sticky tire designed for drag racing so you could launch at a higher rpm without smoking the tires. To get to those kind of numbers with an LT engine you would be looking at aftermarket heads, intake, throttle body, and a far more radical cam with poor street manners.
     
  3. cars4life

    cars4life Veteran Member

    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Location:
    Poughkeepsie N.Y.
    So far im at $ 4100. I think around $1500 more and I will be done with my ls swap.
     
  4. 351maverick

    351maverick full time Ebay seller/hustler/car killer

    Messages:
    3,732
    Likes Received:
    499
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    erie, PA
    at my local cruise ins & generally where the car guys hang out...when big block cars come RUMPITY RUMPITY RUMPITY RUMPITY driving around any little LS motors just melt off into the distance....

    I'm not saying there is no place for a LS motor, just not in my local scene..big blocks rule....with raspy high strung small blocks not too far behind

    if I want street manners I'll drive my wife's Ford Focus
     
  5. TheMeat

    TheMeat Veteran Member

    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Location:
    Ol' Miss.
    My LS fuel system is more than $1500.
     
  6. sbca96

    sbca96 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    2,897
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, Ca
    I apologize then, I obviously confused you with someone else that said something
    similar to me in my last LS vs LT slugfest. Open keyboard insert foot? Sorry about
    that : I should have gone to the thread and checked. My bad .. it was the color
    of your name on the forum and that quote that made me think it was you.

    Came in here with guns blazing and took out a friendly. That was stupid.

    [​IMG]

    While I am sure that an aftermarket cam will liven up both engines, as it did in
    the 289 Studebaker engine I built out of high school, its impossible to believe a
    simple cam change will take a 305 hp LS1 and make it a 500 hp LS1. If you are
    saying that "factory parts" will boost the LS1 from 305 to 500, meaning heads
    and a cam, and assorted other goodies .. how is that different from what you
    would do to an LT1? You just said you could with an LT1 if you replaced those
    items listed above ... I dont see how it makes it better? You mention an LS2
    which is also a 6.0L engine, I know you LS guys hate for me to point out that
    an LT1 is 5.7L. Its not the same cubic inches, which is why I stick to the LS1
    comparo .. its really the FAIR comparo. Had GM made an LT2 or LT6 that was
    a 6.0L, rather than just the LT4 (still 5.7L).

    The LT4 is the last of the SBC, its really sad that its shunned so much. I would
    think there would be some sort of reverence for the last hurrah, before going to
    the Ford firing order. Any LT1 is just a few "factory parts" from an LT4.....

    Tom
     
  7. sevitz5

    sevitz5 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    1,618
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Location:
    Middle Point, Ohio
    I am north of $5K on my swap, but I CHOSE to be there.....I honestly believe you can do the swap conservatively for under $5K, and have an awesome motor.
     
  8. 71RS/SS396

    71RS/SS396 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    2,639
    Likes Received:
    42
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Location:
    Wake Forest NC
    Do you really think the the extra 14 cubic inches the 6.0 has makes that big of a difference in power? The reason I mentioned the LS2 is because that's what I have and can confirm dyno numbers on, most dyno runs I've seen put the LT4 around 300 hp at the wheels.The reason the 6.0 is popular is it was produced in large numbers and the 4" bore allows the use of L92/LS3 heads which out flow a lot of aftermarket big block heads straight out of the box.
     
  9. cdorhout

    cdorhout Veteran Member

    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA
    The reason I chose a LS motor is because I don't know how to tune a carb. :)

    I can tune a car with a laptop any day, and that's what I love about modern engines (not just LS engines). The ability to add/remove fuel and tiiming anywhere in the RPM/Load grid is just awesome. You can make the engine practically perfectly tuned whether you're at idle, cruising, or WOT. If you can do that with a carb, I wouldn't have any idea where to start.

    I can't wait until the new LT1 engines are available cheap. Direct injection is going to be great. Detonation/knock will be much easier to control, thus we'll be able to make crazy power on forced induction. On to the next new thing for me.
     
  10. newschool72

    newschool72 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Location:
    forsyth,ga
    I started this thread to give objective comparisons between the old school GM power plants and the new. The #s at the top of the page are from a reliable source and are BLACK AND WHITE. The LS series out performed the SBC and BBC crates in all but 1 instance, and this one is for you Tom, An instance where the comparison was between a 454 and a 572. This would be an instance where the cubic inches would be a true factor, not 350(5.7) vrs 364(6.0). The comparison also shows the LS won against the SBC and BBC while giving up cubic inches . 323 LS vrs 350SBC, 376 LS vrs 383SBC, 376 LS vrs 427 BBC. In the only test on equal cubes the LS7 destroyed ( ricer term!) the BBC 427. Another thing to consider is that ALL the SCB/BBCs tested were modified to a certain point and the LS engines were factory stock production engines except for the LSX 454 and to keep that fair, it gave up 118 cubic inches, but only lost by .5 sec in the 1/4 mile !
    All the info that is being posted on this forum about the LS family is based on facts. Facts that are proven over and over again. Yes, my friends ,500 HP can be had with a stock 6.0 w a cam and free flowing exhaust. Literally 1000s of them on the street, being driven everyday at a cruise in near you.
    An engines ability to produce HP is ,in the most part, tied to its ability to pump air. The heads are the part that will dictate how much air the engine has the potential to pump. GM, like most of the rest of us, realize this and started selling engines in 1997 that pumped more air than any other designs in the past, cid for cid .The 241 head is the basic, bottom of the barrel LS design and has the ability to pump more air than even the much revered ( by some on this forum) LT4 head. The heads have a helper in the whole pumping thing. You guessed it, the camshaft ! Its that dofloppy with the bumps all over it ( some people call them lobes). Its job is to allow a certain amount of air to get past the valves into the combustion chamber. Its kinda the place where all that air, the head allowed the cam to take, goes to get all mashed together. Those sneaky devils at GM also decided to push all that stuff into a tighter space. But if they did that, it might spark knock! Not a good thing at all, so they figured out a way to make the squeezed up air to swirl around and quench the nasty spark knock.
    So what you get in the end is an engine that can allow more air (heads) to go into a tighter place without spark knock ( more compression ). The bad thing was that GM had to make all this cool new potential very civilized so the average person could get in and drive without any indicator that a potential beast lurked under the hood. To do this they put a tiny cam ( remember the bumpy thing that lets the air in) so the engine would be smooth as silk.
    This is the part where us RICERS figured out we didn't need NAWS or a HUGE WING to be fast. We could put one of those bumpy things in there, but with bigger bumps. If we did that , those lungs (we call them heads) could move more air into the place where it gets all squeezed together, that would make it go BOOM bigger and make more power.
    The point is, its not BS or black magic that makes the LS family of engines have more potential. It is a superior air pump against the designs that came before it did. Better head flow and better combustion chambers allow more air to be used , more efficiently and that produces more power potential . All that is needed to make great street power with an LS engine is a bigger cam to take advantage of the technology that GM gave us.:)
     

Share This Page