Old school SBC/BBC to LS family comparo.

Discussion in 'High Tech Retrofits' started by newschool72, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. Z28Doug

    Z28Doug Veteran Member

    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Location:
    Michigan
    LS,LX, L what-ever... It's a real SHAME it took over 30 YEARS to catch up to my bone stock 70 LT1 in my Z, or the stock 70 LS-5 454 in my 64 Bel Air. :)
     
  2. sbca96

    sbca96 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    2,897
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, Ca
    Do you really expect me to believe that a simple cam swap can pick up almost
    200 hp? Thats what you are saying. If it was that simple, why did GM decide
    to detune their engine that much? The LS1 in the Camaro is basically the same
    engine they used in the Corvette. So in the 1998 Corvette GM said, "hey, lets
    make a 500 hp engine for the Corvette, and than put a cam in it that cuts the
    hp to like 60%!!" .. then everyone said .. "Sweet! thats a GREAT plan!"

    Seems pretty sketchy to me. Give me that cam number, I will swap out the one
    in my wifes 1999 Camaro SS so she can wipe the floor with the new ZL1. Figure
    in a 3400 pound car, 500 hp would destroy a 3900 pound ZL1.

    Tom
     
  3. newschool72

    newschool72 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Location:
    forsyth,ga
    Simply put, the factory uses a different method to rate their HP. The engine has all the accessories installed and the EPA approved catted exhaust. To give you an example, The same engine I have in my Camaro, the LS3, is factory rated at 430HP. On the average engine dyno with the standard dyno headers, the HP ranges from 475 to 495HP bone stock except for headers.
    Ive seen stock 6.0 truck engines make well over 400HP on an engine dyno like the one above. The camshaft in the truck engines are TINY! They are built for bottom of the rev range torque because that is what the truck needs. A healthy cam in say the 230ish range at ,050 can be worth a solid 70-80HP, not because the cam is "magic", but because it is replacing a very conservative factory cam.
    The engine in your wifes 99 Camaro is grossly underrated from the factory and is the same engine in the vette that is conservatively rated at 350HP. Ive seen a bone stock LS1 make 400HP on an engine dyno.
    I think you should do some research on the different ways HP is measured so you can get a better understanding of what is being said by many on this forum. RWHP is HP at the tire patch, FWHP is measured on an engine dyno and the factories rate very different from your average speed shop. The factory ratings are almost useless for us as hotrodders, because they rate them so differently than we do.
    The old 60s method of rating factory HP was very close to the way the aftermarket rates them today. In other words, say the LT1 from 1970 that was rated at 360hp from the factory, that engine would dyno right on that number if you took it to the local speed shop dyno. The LS 1 would make right at 400HP on the same dyno. The truck engine would likely make 415-425HP at the same place. The LS3 would make 475-495HP. I hope this helps you to understand what is going on a little better, so useless arguments don't take over an informative thread like I had hoped this one would be.
     
  4. 351maverick

    351maverick full time Ebay seller/hustler/car killer

    Messages:
    3,732
    Likes Received:
    499
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    erie, PA
    newschool72....can you somehow manipulate the HP numbers of the 160 horsepower 305 in my 86 Monte Carlo to get me, say...300 horsepower?

    thanks
     
  5. newschool72

    newschool72 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Location:
    forsyth,ga
    Mav, Id be glad to. Just send me 100 bucks and pick your #. I can do a 2 for 1, if you would like? Just send me 175 bucks + separate shipping and handling. This offer is only good in the lower 48 states. Certain restrictions apply. But for now, why don't you stalk on over to another bowtie site and spurt uselessness over there. Or go cry because all your Fox Body buddies are running LS engines.:rolleyes:

    EDIT.... Im usually not a smart a$$, but ignorance sometimes makes me say things I shouldn't. For that I apologize .:)
     
  6. newschool72

    newschool72 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Location:
    forsyth,ga
    The new LT 1 is going to be a bear to crack, from what I understand. But that being said, someone will do just that and I think its going to be a fantastic engine. When I first started reading up on it, I thought the massive fuel pressure the direct injection requires was going to be a problem, but the engine has a mechanical fuel pump built in to boost the in tank pump. I don't think it will be any more difficult to supply fuel than the average 90s LT1 or LS engine. Time will tell if it will take some of the LS engines thunder, but Im looking forward to seeing how it all turns out.
     
  7. sbca96

    sbca96 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    2,897
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, Ca
    I know HP ratings, but the fact at hand is its impossible to believe that a simple
    cam change will increase HP by 40%. Even forced air cant.

    I have a 2004 LS1 GTO. Its rated at 350 hp. It shakes something awful compared
    to my wifes 1999 LS1 305 hp and both shake terrible vs my 1995 Impala SS with
    240k miles on it. That car feels electric. Its been said that an LT1 with heads and
    cam required to make 400 hp wouldnt be steetable. Well, my 350 hp LS shakes too
    much IMO ... when I bought the car I thought it was a windy day on and overpass
    and than I realized that was the ENGINE doing that. Some research found thats a
    normal shake due to the cam they use in the GTO LS1.

    Its been said that an engine is an airpump, thats been true since the beginning. Is
    there some magic shortblock internals the LS series has that makes more power? I
    dont think so, its in the heads/cam like its always been. Realistically, the LS series
    just incorporated tricks that porters have done for ages. This means that even an
    LT1 can make big power with good airflow, or a Yugo, or my Avanti with a bunch of
    cash thrown into the heads for porting and bigger valves.

    Tom
     
  8. griffsbombelco

    griffsbombelco Veteran Member

    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Location:
    socal
    Didn't bother reading the rest of your post already found a false statement forced air can increase hp by more than 40%. Ask me how I know :)
     
  9. 71RS/SS396

    71RS/SS396 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    2,639
    Likes Received:
    42
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Location:
    Wake Forest NC
    I never said a cam swap in a LS1 would net 200 more horsepower, not really sure where you got that from in my post, but I bet if you bolted all the LS6 top end parts and what ever cam you can get away for smog in CA and you would be close to that number, I believe the LS6 was rated at 405 hp in the C5 Z06 stock and it's a 5.7 since you seem to be stuck on that displacement. The reason GM doesn't use a cam that makes max power is they have to meet certain emissions and mpg standards.
     
  10. Protour-Camaro

    Protour-Camaro Veteran Member

    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Location:
    California
    Apple and Oranges comparison in here. What is "cost" to one guy could change from one guy to another.

    People always try to refer to builds with the "buddy" discount and what they have done.

    Can you do an LS swap on the cheap? Sure can
    Can you do a BBC stroker build on the cheap? Sure can

    All depends on your parts choice and power goal.

    If you do an equal comparison, the LS will cost you more money all day long!
    Just check out the difference in parts cost. Have you seen what LS parts cost? Nearly double and some more than that compared to a BBC.

    The LS has the edge because you can yank a truck engine and do a few mods and have a good platform. Really can't do that anymore these days with a BBC.

    But if you try to build an LS from scratch, :eek:

    Check it out and see.
     

Share This Page