t56 magnum fitment

Discussion in 'Transmission & Driveline Topics' started by rosco72z, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. DesmoEd

    DesmoEd Veteran Member

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    I have TKO 600's in both my cars and was surprised how much more of a PIA it was to fit the Camaro. The vette tranny went right in with no driveline issues but the Camaro didnt wanna play nice. I ended up 4 degrees down using the stock engine and tranny mounts which was out of parameters and was causing a vibration in 5th gear above 2500rpm. Tranny had to be shimmed up at the x-member which caused interference issues with the tunnel. Like someone said above, the issue for me was with the flat square top on the TKO. The square transmission top was contacting the tunnel on the passenger side in the front corner which resulted in having to make a small clearance cut to give it some wiggle room. Once done, all vibration and clearance issues solved and I'm very happy with its performance.

    As mentioned above, critical aspects of transmission and rear gear selection are induction type (carb or EFI) rear tire height, and cam profile. Often I see people making recommendations on rear gear and transmission overdrive ratios without these important factors being mentioned or considered. A mild cam with EFI will be much more tolerant running at 1800-2000rpm vs a moderate cam with a big Holley carb.

    I went with the .64 OD TKO for the Camaro and while building up the rear end switched from a 3:73 posi to a 4.10 trutrac. Rest of the equation is a 27 inch rear tire (255/60x15) 224/230 hydraulic roller cam and 650 DP Holley. The old 3:73 rear axle had me running 80+mph to be in the sweet spot cruising at 2500rpm, the 4.10 rear now puts that same 2500rpm at a very freeway friendly 74mph. I've seen some concern for 1st being too short with 4.10 but I don't see it as my normal everyday 1-2nd shift is around 3500rpm which is 25mph. To take advantage of the extra rear gear in 1st I replaced the heavy 36 lb Centerforce flywheel I was running along with their equally heavy Dual friction clutch and swapped in a Hays 25 lb flywheel and street strip clutch. Dropping 11 lbs on the flywheel and 5 lbs on the clutch made a huge difference, the motor spools up much nicer now and the increase in engine braking makes for a very fun driving experience.

    When I set up my 69 vette I went with the .82 OD TKO as it was going into a sub 3000lb car with 3:73 out back and a 440hp sbc with a light flywheel and clutch. I had some folks tell me not to run the 15 lb GM flywheel in a 100% street car but I did it anyway and its absolutely phenomenal to drive. It has a 224/230 hyd roller as well with a Chuck Nuytten built 750 HP with a 27 inch tire (255/50x17) and the car runs 2800 rpm at 75mph. With the purpose built carb it actually surprised me how clean it runs down low in top gear. I don't make a habit of it but it will run 2000 rpm in 5th just as clean as can be with no driveline lash as you might expect from the light clutch/flywheel setup. Paid thru the nose for it but its the best carb I've ever run.

    As far as the TKO shift issues I have read about at higher rpm, I have not had any issues as both my cars are hyd roller and are setup to be done by 6000 rpm.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  2. $ Mike 70 Z-28

    $ Mike 70 Z-28 Veteran Member

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    I have a TKO 600 from when they first came out got it from classic chevy 5 speed. it drop right in, only trim shifter opening , stock cross member modified mounting tab had to move it down a little
     
  3. rosco72z

    rosco72z Veteran Member

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    Hey biker
    Does your TKO have a lumpy feel when shifting through the gears or is it smooth like a muncie. I mention in the post that I have to rebuild my m21 and was contemplating on going 5 or 6 speed but have heard that the TKO 600 has a clunky feel going into gears and not sure if going through a swap I want that clunky feel, I do shift at times over 6G.
    Thanks for any input
     
  4. biker

    biker Veteran Member

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    Well, it isn't totally silky smooth like my old honda civic, but I have never missed a shift over 6k rpm or had any odd behaviour out of it. I can say it feels way better than a Muncie or Super T10, and I really like both of those transmissions.
    The only thing that took some getting used to was the strong detent spring that centers the shifter. It takes more effort than I expected to pull the shifter off center to shift into 1st, 5th or reverse. It only took a couple days of driving, and I dont notice it anymore.
    Your biggest decision should be .82 or .64 for 5th gear. If your cam and gearing allows it, .64 is nice, but .82 might be more realistic and still gives a nice drop in rpm.
     
  5. rosco72z

    rosco72z Veteran Member

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    Having to rebuild my stick again I'm trying ti figure out witch way to go I don't want that clunky feeling and was thinking to rebuild the M21 again and put a Gear Vendor on it but if I'm going to spend $ on a rebuild + $ on a GV I might as well upgrade to a 5 or 6, you mentioned in another post about wanting to try a t56M and I think you have a 600 in your ride, is there something you don't like about the 600 to want to go to a magnum, I was checking out SST and they seem to have some good options and warranty for the magnum and also have some good upgrades and options for the tko600.
    Thanks for any feedback
     
  6. biker

    biker Veteran Member

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    Nope, love the 600, best upgrade to my car yet. Just did the SST hydraulic clutch too, and that works very well too.
    Yes, I did post about wanting a t56, but that is just me always wanting something more...
    When I ordered the tko, I didn't have much info on the t56. It seemed like it may not fit as easily, I didnt want to cut my tunnel, and everything I saw about the tko was that it was more of a direct bolt in, which it truly turned out to be.
    Having seen that G72 loves his t56, and knowing what I know now, I may have opted for the t56 instead. That is not a knock on the tko, it works incredibly well and fits perfectly. SST has been great to deal with too.
    For you though, you have more info to work with than I did, and if you are capable of doing the work, why not go for tthe 6 speed over the 5? That's my honest opinion. I'm careful not try and validate my own choices by convincing others to do the same as I did.
    The t56 is more expensive too, but some advice I gave in another thread is dont let cost be the deciding factor on a major upgrade like this. Paying a few extra bucks is temporary pain.
     
  7. rosco72z

    rosco72z Veteran Member

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    I was pretty set up on the Gear Vendor because I'm old school and wanted to keep the muncie but the 70's and 80's have passed and time to get with new technologie and 60mph @ 3000rpm is done. I went to this Tremec site http://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php and either the 600 or the t56 with my specs. will basically give me the same results 65mph @ 2000rpm I could pay the extra for the t56 just on fuel saving alone as you know what we pay for good juice, I'm already spending $ for a 600 so a bit more for a 6sp. I'm sure I would be happy with the 600 and was looking for just a 5sp. upgrade, so next is to check out prices. I appreciate your feedback and take it for what its worth and having knowledgeable members like you and G help a lot.
    Thanks
     
  8. biker

    biker Veteran Member

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    Yessir! Good luck with the decision, there are certainly worse problems to have. Really factor in your current engine, cam, rear gears and intended purpose, and do a good job on it!
     
  9. G72Zed

    G72Zed Veteran Member

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    Well, here's my personal, hands on take on this, for whatever it's worth.

    I was driving my customers 1970 Z28 with a 588hp 406 I was involved in (fun, and can get you into trouble LOL) , and although the TKO600 (.64-4.10) worked great, it left me "Searching" a bit in a "quick" gear change, nothing to complain about really, but I drove an M22 350HP 72 Z28, and those Muncie's do shift nice......

    I now have a 69 SS396 Chevelle in the shop (500hp/TKO600/4.10) and it drives the same, a little searching......these both have the guide plates, so no missing 3rd and going into 5th.

    I put 400 miles on my new T56 Magnum this weekend..... there is a difference in shifting without a doubt...Magnum's single rail design and the STX shifter is the cat's a$$ and makes the big difference.

    The other thing I liked was on the "slower" highway speeds I left it in 5th (.80), then as the traffic speeds picked up, I used 6th (.63), so with a true 26.9 tire (27.3 calculated) @ 2,350 RPM got me to 80 mph/129KPH, I was just off my mains, 15 AFR's, timing almost all in, car got quiet and was back to hitting 20+mpg. Didn't think I would use the 6th as much, but I am. It really depends on your rear gear, tire diameter and the roads you drive on. timing and carb design setup plays a roll in this.

    I seriously looked the TKO600, but I shift at a higher RPM's, and by the time you do the upgrades in the shifter and carbon fiber synchro's in the TKO, your almost in Magnum cost territory, and still not getting the rpm shift capability of the Magnum.
     
  10. biker

    biker Veteran Member

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    Yes, I forgot to mention that I have the STX shifter and carbon fiber synchro upgrade on my TKO. The shifter is part of SST's kit, but I paid for the blocker rings because I do shift over 6000 often.
    I still say if you have the chance, the Magnum sounds like a better upgrade while you have the choice.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020

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