Where are my Ford experts at?

Discussion in 'The BS Topic' started by AllensaurusRex, Aug 6, 2019.

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  1. Knuckle Dragger

    Knuckle Dragger Mayor of Simpleton Staff Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Maybe, but not likely. We need to see what the ECM is seeing to make the correct call. You are out of fuel control that's a given. Now we need to see if it's mechanical (pump, injectors, vacuum leak etc), ECM inputs (wiring, faulty sensors etc), or ECM outputs (ECM failure, wiring, defective actuators, etc) None of it is hard we just need the right pieces of info to figure it out.
     
  2. Knuckle Dragger

    Knuckle Dragger Mayor of Simpleton Staff Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    I'm home now and can try and put down a coherent though without being interrupted by......work LOL.

    Now I'm assuming this has bank fired injectors. I tried to get time to confirm this but I just didn't get the uninterrupted time to look into it. So based on that assumption I'm thinking the ECM is seeing what it thinks is bank one O2 and adjusting the mixture to compensate but it's changing bank two injector pulse width. Sort of like it has either the O2s wired wrong from side to side or the injectors wired wrong side to side. What we would want to do is see both O2 readings, and fake a rich or lean condition to see if it changes on the specific side. You could unplug the O2 and see but sometimes Ford shows your the default reading it uses if the signal is lost on the scan tool without telling you it's been substituted. If the ECM is seeing the O2s on the correct side you'll want to see if it's firing the injectors correctly as in bank one and bank two. I guess to do that you would need to measure pulse width on the injectors and see if they are acting right, on bank one they should have a really long pulse on bank two should be significantly lower.

    This is the only thing I can think of that would cause sever lean condition on one side and sever rich on the other. You've done significant work to the vehicle I'd go over every inch of the wiring and make sure I got it all hooked up right. Sometimes the connectors will interchange. If you have a good scan tool (not sure if that readout is from the Ford dealer or you have the IDS) the numbers that will help me are IAC, MAF, MAP(if it has it) and both O2 sensors S1B1 and S1B2.

    Did that make sense?

    This really could be a bunch of different things. It would be nice to try and narrow it down before dropping anymore cash on it.
     
  3. AllensaurusRex

    AllensaurusRex Veteran Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to assist. Hope you don't get in too much trouble at work helping a sad sap fix his Ford on a Camaro website, haha. Unfortunately, I took it to the dealership after I had run out of ideas so that read-out is from the dealership. I'm reasonably mechanically inclined and did do the work myself, although I always write down exactly what I do step-by-step and retraced my steps when hooking everything back up. I also just spent about 45 minutes outside tracing all of the vacuum houses to make dang sure. I didn't find anything out of place. I also double checked the fuel rail and it only goes on one way (as certain connections wouldn't fit under the upper manifold if reversed). So I can safely say it is on correctly. Regarding o2 sensors, I only replaced the driver side-upstream one. I guess its possible they sent a passenger side o2 sensor to me (although I was having the same exact conditions (codes) before and after I installed the new o2 sensor, so I think I can rule that out...).

    Unfortunately, I don't have an easy way of getting that information unless I dropped it off again and specifically requested that. My friend has a nice snap on scanner. I might see if he can get that information from it.
     
  4. Mike N

    Mike N Administrator Staff Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    I don't remember the last time I've ever seen LTFT numbers past 20% in either direction.
     
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  5. AllensaurusRex

    AllensaurusRex Veteran Member

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    On second glance, this information was provided via the dealership. Woohoo! I included an image, but just typed it all out here to make it easier to read.
    • Load: 83.14%
    • ECT: 203 F
    • SFT1: 3.91%
    • LFT1: 24.22%
    • SFT2: -4.69%
    • LFT2: -12.5%
    • RPM: 2939.25
    • VS: 75.202MPH
    • SPARKADV: 30.5 degrees
    • IAT: 82.4 degrees F
    • MAF: 44g/s
    • TP: 40.39%
    • O2S11: 0.68V
    • O2S12: 0.6V
    IMG_20190807_201458.jpg

    IMG_20190807_201448.jpg
     
  6. Knuckle Dragger

    Knuckle Dragger Mayor of Simpleton Staff Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Those numbers look to be the freeze frame data for the P0304 code. Into the throttle pretty good, looks like accelerating from 75mph. The fuel trim number look more realistic but still weird it's adding fuel on bank 1 and pulling fuel on bank 2, the O2 numbers look good to me and don't support the fuel trim numbers. No reason I can see that it's adjusting the fuel mixture like that.

    I'm curious to see what the others say, I'm perplexed.
     
  7. SRGN

    SRGN Veteran Member

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    I'd look at every ECM ground on it to start with. I think that one is still batch fire, check your voltage at the injectors on the affected bank. If I remember correctly, there is a fuse for each bank, and if you get corrosion in the fuse box it can cause an entire bank to misfire due to low voltage. You should have battery voltage on one side of the injector connector with key on, engine off. The other side of the connector, the ECM pulses ground to open the injectors. If there is a bad ground to ECM, you can have improper pulse width. Do you have a scope, or access to one?
     
  8. AllensaurusRex

    AllensaurusRex Veteran Member

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    I do not have a scope unfortunately. If that rain holds off when I get home, I will:
    1. Check again all around the ECM for a bad ground connection
    2. Check the fuses for this. Are these on the ECM itself or in the fuse box?
     
  9. AllensaurusRex

    AllensaurusRex Veteran Member

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    At this point, is it safe to rule out the possibility of a bad catalytic converter? I could take it out for a drive and then look under to see if it is glowing/etc. I haven't done that yet, and understand that a clogged exhaust could cause misfires.
     
  10. Fbird

    Fbird Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    buddy just did similar on an XXX ranger v-6....lol...would idle fine...rev fine.....wouldn't do more than 35 mph.....start getting lean, rich codes..spit sputter.... disconect all the 0'2 sensors (they should previde a default setting to drive)...remove the exhaust AFTER the front cats.....should be a joint at the y pipe. use a coat hanger to support exhaust....see if it will drive WITH POWER!....
    front cats let go and clogged rear cat...ehaust would NOT flow enough to support unleashing all 65 horses under the hood. WARNING Exhaust is expensive IIRC they wanted $300 for EACH converter and about $1200 for a full exhaust

    FWIW ....buddy did the same thing. plugs, wires, coil pack, compression test ( i advised to NOT pull the heads...beyond HIS abilities). His went from fine one day to CHIT the next.. ;)
     

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