Which stance does your car have?

Discussion in 'The BS Topic' started by 1971CamaroGuy, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. 1971CamaroGuy

    1971CamaroGuy LS Swapped 1971 Camaro

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    This cracked me up --> http://www.hotrod.com/articles/1204phr-the-secrets-of-stance/

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    The “Gasser”

    Violation: Frontend too high relative to the rear

    The cause: When asked why the front is so high, most people will tell you the rear springs have sagged over time, which may be a contributing factor, but it’s not the root cause. Aftermarket springs are the biggest factor, and “gasser look” happens when the front spring pigtail does not fit correctly inside the spring pocket on the control arm. Beyond that, most spring manufacturers build their coils for a “worst case” scenario for legal reasons. A 2-inch drop may be advertised, but if you’ve got a lightweight V-8 that’s been stripped, and the manufacturer built them to handle a big-block with factory iron heads, original A/C, power steering—i.e. fully loaded, you might not get any drop at all. In fact, it might end up higher than stock.

    The cure: Switch to a drop spindle to keep the steering geometry correct. Don’t be afraid to supplement this with modest, incremental cutting of the spring coil. Keep in mind that if you’ve got a motion ratio of 2:1, a 1-inch cut to the compressed spring height will produce a 2-inch drop. Mopars can crank down on the torsion bars for free.

    When is it OK? If you’re doing a retro thing, or building a real gasser, go for it! You’ll need to stay period correct with the rest of the equipment though.


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    The “Stinkbug”

    Violation: frontend too low, rearend too high

    The cause: We’ve all seen this look back in the ’70s and ’80s when high-jacker shocks and shackle kits were big. Perhaps in the quest to perpetrate a proper rake, guys just can’t resist that shackle kit or spring spacer blister pack at Pep Boys. In those heady days before Pro Street, guys liked to jack up the rear to emulate the look of the early Pro Stockers and Funny Cars. There was pride in showing off chrome rearend covers, fuel pumps, tube mufflers, air shocks, and anything else that fell off the Super Shops truck. Unfortunately, some of those teenagers grew up and made it big in the contracting business, and are now dropping six figures on custom-built hot rods that look “jess like the one I wrapped around a tree the night of the REO Speedwagon concert back in 1978.”

    The cure: Take off that shackle kit, or lower those rear coilovers. If you’ve got a Mopar, crank the torsion bars a tad higher.

    When is it OK? This is your whiskey-runnin’ car, and the liquor tank back yonder is empty.

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    The “Floodwater”

    Violation: The entire car sits too high

    The cause: Also known as the “four-by-four”—this car sits entirely too high all over, and looks like it’s designed to ford small streams or go off-roading. This is clearly a case of going crazy with the JC Whitney catalog—over-tall Chinese springs, a shackle kit, over-inflated airbags, maybe even some spring spacers get thrown in the mix. And shame on Mopar guys for cranking torsion bars this high. (Chevelle guys actually seem far more predisposed to this look for some reason.) Sometimes, though, guys order springs too tall by accident, or manufacturers make them too tall. (We’ve yet to see a spring that was too short.) In the case of too tall springs, it’s laziness, or the fear of cutting them (an unwarranted obsession with product safety?) prevents folks from going the shorter spring route. Chronic “floodwater” also occurs when low-hanging headers and an ill-fitting exhaust force guys into the multi-way high-jack.

    The cure: Get shorter springs, cut the springs, use drop spindles, crank the torsion bars down, remove the shackle kit, or pull those spring spacers out. Fix your exhaust.

    When is it OK? If the crick is risin’ and the bridge is out. Also, if you’re going for the look that crazy guy had in Thunderbolt and Lightfoot (the one with chickens in his trunk)—this is your rake!

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    The “Donk”



    Violation: Obscenely large and patently unsafe wheels and tires

    The cause: Like saggy pants, and ball caps with the tags still on them, the superlarge wheels on a donk have their cultural origins in shoplifted merch. That’s right, they’re supposed to look stolen. The theory is, when you’re swiping stuff, you can’t be picky on the size because time is of the essence (super small wheels on lowriders fit the bill too). Inner-city gangsters “got the tire rolling,” but like many subculture movements before it, donk wheels quickly gained steam in suburbia.

    The cure: The mechanical systems of even modern cars are incapable of coping with the inertial juggernaut of supersized wheels (anything over 22 inches). The larger the wheel, the worse the physics nightmare becomes. Excessive rotating inertia makes panic stopping unsafe or impossible, and overall unsprung weight makes handling sluggish and incompliant. Ride quality is also severely impacted as the spring and shock package is overwhelmed by the sheer mass of the wheel and tire. No joke: Downsize your wheels, or risk injury.

    When is it OK? If you insist on doing your part for evolution, by all means, thin the heard.

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    The “Slamma”

    Violation: Scraping frame while driving

    The cause: We have no beef with laying frame in a car with a properly setup air suspension system. In fact, RideTech has one of the most capable suspensions on the market with their AirRide series. You get where you’re going, park, then lay frame. People will marvel how you did it. Driving around with a laid frame, however, will result in undercarriage damage, and front suspension geometry that’s out of its proper camber curve. Are you perma-laying frame without an adjustable air suspension? You’re asking for scraped headers, a smashed oil pan, bottomed-out shocks, unpredictable handling, and uneven tire wear. We like “low” in a traditional non-adjustable spring-type suspension, but too low is dangerous and silly looking.

    The cure: Get the AirRide with adjustable ride height.

    When is it OK? If your car is strictly for show. It comes off the trailer (good luck with that!), into the convention hall, and then back on the trailer.

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    The “Narrow Track”

    Violation:
    Tires sucked too far into the body

    The cause: Bad planning, a lack of fabrication skill, and poor aesthetic sensibility are the biggest causes here. Wheels that hide from daylight are often the product of a rearend that’s too narrow, wheels with not enough outer lip (backspacing), cheaper chassis kits that aren’t designed for a specific body or frame, a poor conversion from a Pro Street car to a Pro Touring car, fabrication chops that aren’t up to snuff, or deciding on the wheel/tire package too late in the buildup. This violation is most often committed in pro-built ground-up projects where the “pro” part is more wishful thinking than reality. Stock-style suspensions usually skirt the issue because wheel manufacturers usually have something that looks good that fits (you’re still on the hook for ordering the right offset wheels). Swapping in a narrowed rearend that’s too small for the car can also result in disaster.

    The cure: A true “pro” builder doing a chassis car will always mock up the desired wheel/tire in the wheelwell before turning on the plasma cutter. Don’t cut steel until the UPS guy delivers the tires! When he does, build the chassis and suspension geometry around the proper visual placement of the tires.

    When is it OK? If you want to look like a woolly mammoth tiptoeing through the tulips, this is your strategy right here.

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    The “Wide Track”

    Violation: Tires sticking out beyond the fender lip

    The cause: Dude, you totally bought the wrong rims! Yeah, those 14-inch-wide cheater slicks on autodrag rims seemed like such a good deal at the swap meet lying there forlorn in all their 1988 Pro Street majesty. The price was good, and they were whispering hypnotically: “buy me, buy me…” The guy gets ’em home, they don’t fit under the fender lip, so he runs to the Western Auto to get some spring spacers—or heaven forbid—a shackle kit. “Now them suckers fit!” he says gleefully as he pops his 11th beer. It’s hard to see the violation when you’re seeing double and thinking half.

    The cure: Just don’t be a dumbass, OK? If you put these on your car, you’re not entitled to a car that looks cool.

    When is it OK? If you’re headed to the Car Craft Summer Nats, or attending a burnout contest in Australia.

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    The “Flatface”

    Violation: No dish on the front wheels but plenty on the rear

    The cause: This one is tricky because it arises from the desire to use a potentially much better modern front suspension. Late-model performance cars like the Corvette, Viper, and Camaro are often donor cars—or are used as the geometry models—for the suspensions in older muscle cars. They often have wheels with little backspacing (a high positive offset) in order to provide room for larger brake packages and to reduce the scrub radius—both good things. Thus, the front rim dish is going to be limited. (Project X, in fact, has a C6 Corvette front suspension, and high-positive—offset custom wheels.) Some builders, however, just throw in the towel. Resigned to the fact that the car will need a front wheel with little or no dish, they just quit worrying about the look.

    The cure: If you must use a late-model front suspension, you can minimize the disparity between the front and rear wheel offset. Choose a design that accentuates the lip that is there, build the front of the car to fit as much offset as possible, and don’t get carried away with too much offset in the rear (i.e. keep it limited in back). Project X is a good example here.

    When is it OK? If you don’t mind a really expensive car that looks like a half-breed bastard.

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    Mismatched Shoes

    Violation: Sidewall height not proportional to tire height, or to the size of the car

    The cause: When ordering tires, the owner or car builder is looking at the overall tire height without considering the sidewall height. In a staggered fitment where the rear is taller than the front, the rear should also have a proportionally taller sidewall. “Even Steven” will do in a pinch, but the rear should never be shorter. Another problem is that tire manufacturers often wimp out when it comes to building larger tires—especially for the rear. They will market a line toward muscle car enthusiasts often as an afterthought, when most of their sizes are for imports or front-wheel-drive cars. As tire makers and car builders court each other for sponsorships, a lot of uncool muscle cars get built with tires that have too short a sidewall, and also not enough width.

    The cure: Just buy some Nittos and call it a day. Also, tire makers shouldn’t pretend to cater to muscle cars if they really don’t.

    When is it OK? If you’ve got a front-wheel-drive hot rod that’s traction-limited up front.

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    The “Fake Rake”

    Violation: Car has rake, but doesn’t look like it does

    The cause: An aesthetically pleasing rake takes into consideration several visual cues, only one of which is the actual angle of the rocker panel relative to the ground. Fake rake happens when the builder only looks at the rocker molding; when the front is closer to the ground than the rear, he’s done setting his stance. The eye of the admirer, however, is also judging the distance between the top of the rim lip and the top of the wheel arch; when the top of the rear rim is too high relative to the rear fender lip (when compared to the front situation), the eye sees the front as being jacked up in the air—even when the car may be lower in front!

    The cure: On most homebuilt street machines, the front is probably not low enough, and is the most common problem we find when searching for feature cars. On pro-built cars, having too large a wheel in the back often causes it.

    When is it OK? If your car is truly fast, you can have whatever rake you want.

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    “Hippo in a Tutu”

    Violation: Wheel center/spokes too thin for visual mass of car

    The cause: Wheel shopping can be fun, and in the process of surfing the web, it’s easy to fall in love with a cool wheel that is otherwise not a good match for the size and visual mass of a larger muscle car. You see the wheel as it looked in the photo studio against a white background, but not on your car. The size of the wheel can be perfect, the size of the tires dead on, the rake laid out like a stealth fighter, but when you put ’em on, it just looks like the wheels are going to get crushed by the weight of the car. It’s kinda like Rosanne in a bikini—she can do it, but it looks hideous. We all know there is a preponderance of import tuner wheels out there, and they look good on those cars if you like that sort of thing. Tuner spoke wheels work best on cars with a compact silhouette. Smaller muscle machines like early Mustangs and Camaros can handle them fine, but a big B-Body like the ’67 Charger? Uh-uh.

    The cure: Going to the drags: cool. Dressing your car in drag: uncool. Re-shoe your ride in wheels that nicely balance the visual mass of your car’s body. The heavier the car, the beefier the spoke should look. There’s also sound engineering support of this argument—heavier cars need stronger, more massive spokes.

    When is it OK? If you hang out with the Fast & Furious crowd, have at it.

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    Disappearing Wheels

    Violation: Painting your wheels so black, they disappear

    The cause: Obviously, the cause of this is the desire to have a cool, stealthy appearance. That’s not a bad thing in itself, but when the idea is taken to its maximum effect, uh, the wheels disappear. No eye can see them at a glance, and no camera that Canon or Nikon makes can detect them. Short of being picked up by an infrared sensor, these hoops are flyin’ under the radar. We get the look, but isn’t the idea of spending big on wheels that people actually see them?

    The cure: Instead of going with stealth black, lighten up a bit. Try graphite or dark titanium. Maybe black works, but use a machined outer lip and/or a red pinstripe. You’ll have stealth, but the shape of the wheel will seduce rather than confound the admirer.

    When is it OK? When you really need stealth, or don’t plan on washing your wheels for an entire year.

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    The Low Exhaust

    Violation: Exhaust hanging down too far

    The cause: Having a low-sounding exhaust is one thing, but having a low-hanging exhaust is both a pain in the rear (literally) and an eyesore. The silhouette of a muscle car can easily be disturbed by low-hanging pipes, mufflers, headers, and other suspension gadgets. We’re not saying you need to channel your body over the frame and run the driveline and exhaust through the chassis (although that is cool when the pros do it), we’re just saying take a little care to tidy things up. If you don’t, you’ll begin compromising the stance of your hot rod to make it over driveway ramps, speed bumps, chuckholes, and all the normal stuff you find on a road. Not only does junk hanging down look ugly, the low ground clearance means guys lift the frontend up to clear the bumps. No good on two counts.

    The cure: A good rule of thumb is to have 4 inches of clearance, more if possible, at the high center point. Clearance is less critical at the axles than in the center or under the chin. Get the right headers, snug the exhaust up to the floorboard, and get the rake set right.

    When is it OK? You live in a world with glass-smooth roads and really tall people.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  2. Gary S

    Gary S Administrator Lifetime Gold Member

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    I say, just leave it like Chevy made it. They got it right, so it doesn't need changes.
     
  3. BillyDean7173

    BillyDean7173 Veteran Member

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    That's funny! :lush:
    Great article. Thanks. :bowtie:
     
  4. Buickfunnycar

    Buickfunnycar Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    LOL...that was laughs...thanks!
     
  5. Coadster32

    Coadster32 Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Funny...What is the one after slamma called?
     
  6. 1971CamaroGuy

    1971CamaroGuy LS Swapped 1971 Camaro

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    The “Narrow Track”
     
  7. APEowner

    APEowner Veteran Member

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    I've got disappearing wheels with the fake rake!
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    In my defense the car is most stable at speed with the rake that it's got and I have multiple sets of wheels because I go through a lot of tires so low cost was a priority when deciding what wheels to use.
     
  8. Da_Raabi

    Da_Raabi Veteran Member

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    Not gonna lie. Those wheels are on my "dream list". I've wanted them for YEARS.

    Don't let 'em tell you what to do! I like black wheels!
     
  9. 351maverick

    351maverick full time Ebay seller/hustler/car killer

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    OP that was freaking hilarious

    and SO true!
     
  10. sparkyboy

    sparkyboy Veteran Member

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    I love the slammed stance on these cars they do scrape everything however!
    before and after, best mod I have done to my Camaro :) WP_20150702_003.jpg samsung shit 004.jpg
     

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