LS swap, 81 Z, Tranny Angle, Drive Shaft angle, Pinion Angle problems, engine brackets too tall?

[FooFighter]

I understand what angles I need to get the proper driveline angle. Problem is I can only get the engine to about 5 degrees negative and I need it closer to 3 degrees negative, but the Holley engine brackets that mount to the engine and then mount to the frame mounts seem to be too tall. Anyone have this problem? Are there engine brackets you can get that are lower profile than what Holley offers? My car is lower than stock a couple inches so the pinion actually sets up a bit higher than the nose of the transmission. If I had shorter engine brackets it would help point the nose of the tranny upward and get to the correct angle of around 3 degrees. I have coil overs on the front of the car and a 4 link system on the back with coil overs. Ride height looks pretty good, I have the car on cribs with the weight of the car on the wheels. What have you guys done to get proper driveline angle?

 

[mrfleet12]

I used the Holley mounts on my 73 with a 4L60E trans and was able to get good angles. On my 70 I used Dingo and again no issues..
Are you not able to get the trans high enough in the tunnel, I did have to massage mine a bit by the tail shaft.. Also, I know getting to the "correct" angles is important but for me it was also about making sure there were no vibrations.. With the 73 which was my first swap, I got everything as close as I could then took it out for a drive.. Worked through banging the floor a bit to get the trans higher and also adding a shim to the rear to get rid of all vibrations..
With the experience of the 73, my 70 went much easier, had to bang the floor a bit but it has a Quick Performance fabbed 9" which didn't require any shims.. For me also, I look more at the differences of the angles at the front and the rear, meaning, the angle of the trans compared to the driveshaft and the rearend angle compared to the driveshaft, trying to get them to be similar..
Have you looked at the Tremec app <link, it can help with getting the correct angles..

 

[73Z L92]

What do you have for clearance between the oil pan and front crossmember? Room to mod the engine mounts a bit to drop the engine down a bit? I used generic LS engine adapter plates and stock 80 Camaro engine mounts.
I just measured my 80 Camaro with a LS3/4L60E combo off the balancer. It's at the 4.5 degrees the best I can tell. Stock 10 bolt with Hotchkis lowering springs. Zero vibrations. I didn't ding the tunnel except on the right side for clearance for the trans cooler line -6 fittings.

 

[FooFighter]

I used the Holley mounts on my 73 with a 4L60E trans and was able to get good angles. On my 70 I used Dingo and again no issues..
Are you not able to get the trans high enough in the tunnel, I did have to massage mine a bit by the tail shaft.. Also, I know getting to the "correct" angles is important but for me it was also about making sure there were no vibrations.. With the 73 which was my first swap, I got everything as close as I could then took it out for a drive.. Worked through banging the floor a bit to get the trans higher and also adding a shim to the rear to get rid of all vibrations..
With the experience of the 73, my 70 went much easier, had to bang the floor a bit but it has a Quick Performance fabbed 9" which didn't require any shims.. For me also, I look more at the differences of the angles at the front and the rear, meaning, the angle of the trans compared to the driveshaft and the rearend angle compared to the driveshaft, trying to get them to be similar..
Have you looked at the Tremec app <link, it can help with getting the correct angles..

I'm running the Tremec 5 speed TKX, it is already up against the tunnel in the bell housing area on the driver side. Can't raise it any higher than -5 degrees. I would have to pull the tranny and pound the eff out of that area of the tunnel to to get it to go higher, I don't think I would get it much higher if any. I though the TKX was supposed to be a perfect fit. If the holley engine brackets were shorter, I could lower the engine, which would lower the tranny and allow me to tilt the nose of the tranny upward more to get that -3 degrees. My rear end is a ride tech ford 9" specifically made for F bodys, with a 4 link system. You can adjust the pinion angle by twisting some adjustment arms forward or bacward, no shims needed. I may play with that a bit and see if I can get the angles better. Tranny is -5.25, reared is -5.25, the driveshaft is +1.6. When you have a negative and a positive you add them together to get 6.85 operating angle, which is too much, supposed to be between .5 and 3 degrees. If you have two negative or two positive angles then you subtract them.

 

[FooFighter]

What do you have for clearance between the oil pan and front crossmember? Room to mod the engine mounts a bit to drop the engine down a bit? I used generic LS engine adapter plates and stock 80 Camaro engine mounts.
I just measured my 80 Camaro with a LS3/4L60E combo off the balancer. It's at the 4.5 degrees the best I can tell. Stock 10 bolt with Hotchkis lowering springs. Zero vibrations. I didn't ding the tunnel except on the right side for clearance for the trans cooler line -6 fittings.

I have good clearance between the crossmember and oil pan about 1 to 1.5 inches, maybe more. Yes if I could find engine brackets that were shorter than the holley LS brackets I bought I think that would help. My engine sits at -5.25 degrees off the balancer and the nose of the transmission.

I'm running the Tremec 5 speed TKX, it is already up against the tunnel in the bell housing area on the driver side. Can't raise it any higher than -5.25 degrees. I would have to pull the tranny and pound the eff out of that area of the tunnel to to get it to go higher, I don't think I would get it much higher if any. I thought the TKX was supposed to be a perfect fit. If the holley engine brackets were shorter, I could lower the engine, which would lower the tranny and allow me to tilt the nose of the tranny upward more to get that -3 degrees. My rear end is a ride tech ford 9" specifically made for F bodys, with a 4 link system. You can adjust the pinion angle by twisting some adjustment arms forward or bacward, no shims needed. I may play with that a bit and see if I can get the angles better. Tranny is -5.25, reared is -5.25, the driveshaft is +1.6. When you have a negative and a positive you add them together to get 6.85 operating angle, which is too much, supposed to be between .5 and 3 degrees. If you have (two negative) or (two positive angles) then you subtract them.

 

[73Z L92]

So can you move the engine/trans forward to gain some tunnel clearance? The generic engine mounts I used have a number of tapped holes so you can move the engine as needed. I didn't use a TKX but on a 73 Camaro I did with a LS3/TKO 600 swap. I've since sold it a number of years ago but I don't recall cutting up the tunnel for clearance. I know I used a stock 73 console.

 

[Icepick23]

A couple of things to think about here is, you haven't said anything about what kind of body mount bushings you have. Are they rubber and flattened and or rotted? Or are they solid mount bushings and are they the right ones? This can really put your driveline angle out of whack. The other thing is what shape is your subframe in? Was it in a accident? Was it Drag Raced, wheelies and the front end slammed to the ground? Did you do take measurements on the alignment of the frame to the ground. I've seen where the firewall was smashed in from wheelies at the point where the subframe meets the firewall, bending the frame and body mounts and the body itself and giving you a "NOSE UP" and "TAIL DOWN" Issue.

This is what I used for my LS3. I ended up with about 3/4 ish of an inch away from my crossmember KIT

 

[FooFighter]

So can you move the engine/trans forward to gain some tunnel clearance? The generic engine mounts I used have a number of tapped holes so you can move the engine as needed. I didn't use a TKX but on a 73 Camaro I did with a LS3/TKO 600 swap. I've since sold it a number of years ago but I don't recall cutting up the tunnel for clearance. I know I used a stock 73 console.

Yes I think if the engine slid towards the radiator more it would give more tunnel clearance and allow me to lift the tail of the tranny up a bit. The Holley LS mounts I have only have one position, so I think I'll need to get the adjustable LS mounts to slid the engine away from the firewall. Right now it sits about 1" from the firewall. That's an idea that might work. Thanks! I am running an LS3 as well.

 

[FooFighter]

A couple of things to think about here is, you haven't said anything about what kind of body mount bushings you have. Are they rubber and flattened and or rotted? Or are they solid mount bushings and are they the right ones? This can really put your driveline angle out of whack. The other thing is what shape is your subframe in? Was it in a accident? Was it Drag Raced, wheelies and the front end slammed to the ground? Did you do take measurements on the alignment of the frame to the ground. I've seen where the firewall was smashed in from wheelies at the point where the subframe meets the firewall, bending the frame and body mounts and the body itself and giving you a "NOSE UP" and "TAIL DOWN" Issue.

This is what I used for my LS3. I ended up with about 3/4 ish of an inch away from my crossmember KIT

Body mount bushing are brand new polyurothane, the correct ones for an Fbody. The car has never been drag raced, it was all stock when I bought it 21 years ago. Straight as a razor. I'm thinking I may get those adjustable engine brackets that slide the engine towards the radiator, that would make more room in the tunnel and allow me to get the snout of the tranny up a little higher. Would also help if the engine brackets were lower profile. I'm thinking the LS swap Holley brackets I have were meant to be used on a stock tranny vs a Tremec TKX 5 speed.